Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[premmington]

Milk floats from Smiths Electric vehicles were the thing, a company youd have expected to have prospered, just a timing thing really they got it wrong, missed the markets, made some bad decisions and are now no more, though they were selling electric goods vehicles back in 2008…and looked at London taxis as EVs way back then, but seems range was an issue at only 100miles.

Home - Smith Electric Vehicles

Smith Electric Vehicles manufactures and markets zero-emission commercial electric vehicles that are designed to be a superior alternative to traditional diesel trucks and provide a lower total cost of ownership.

www.smithev.com

They alive and kicking (just) mate...

 

[daleyd]

You talking about just the cost of fuel / electric? No one’s getting 5p a mile in an EV these days (unless some very legacy cheap tariff) … so you’re doing pretty well !

Octopus go is currently 9.5p/kWh night rate?

That’s what we are on, works out at roughly 3p/mile.

I believe it’s cheaper if you can get octopus intelligent, our charger isn’t compatible so we stuck with the go tariff.

 

[northwest]

Wer'nt just delivering the milk in the mornings either.

I can remember the milk man coming on a Friday evening to collect the money - he had a brown leather shoulder bag thing.

Assume they came on Friday as it was payday....

I also assume they were sort of "self employed" rented the float/round off Dairy Crest...? Not sure?

-----------

Been a lot in the press the last few years - about Supermarkets driving the price of milk down - but was there not a corrupt Milk Marketing Board before this.

A milkmans lot has never been a "happy lot"...

Being a milkman is not for everybody, it is not as simple as being a postman (another "not for everyone job") you have to get the float out, assuming you remembered to put it on charge and some scroat, presumably thinking it was "funny" hasn't unplugged it during the day, then load it up, an average was 120 gallons with some of the more ambitious lads taking out 180 gallons, that is between 960 and 1400 ish bottles plus the cream, steri, yoghurt and eggs some customers want. No wonder I was one of the fittest kids at school. Cross country it was hard to beat me, I had probably done 15 miles plus before I got to school in the morning, but I was given to falling asleep during class, little wonder. My parents would probably be facing jail in today's world!

I clearly remember the winter of '65 or '67 and pushing my mothers mini, boot open and a couple of crates of milk in it, through really deep snow, in shorts! Just getting the milk on the doorstep. None of this "performance technical" clothing either. A duffel coat and a pair of school shoes was "well wrapped". I remember always having cold wet feet. Have some horror stories too. Once, when delivering to a tower block, I got stuck in the lift in Thornaby, for a couple hours, fortunately it was way back in the day and people generally left things be so the float and it's contents were intact when i eventually got out. We would always be mindful of milk being left on the doorstep too, if it was more than two days the Police were called as it was usually a deceased. One while collecting money, with that brown leather cash bag over my shoulder we watched a bloke murdering his wife on the doorstep (in a particularly challenging estate) and scarpered before the Police arrived because we knew it would result in the inevitable tedious hours making statements. It wasn't like the bloke was discreet, the whole cul-de-sac was out. Disturbed a fair few burglaries too and once ran round the back of a house with two pints of stripe top (I didn't drop them) to be bitten by a German Shepherd that clearly lived there.

When I was about thirteen I used to load a float and take it out on my own, if the Police ever showed up I would just say the Roundsman (or Girl) was "round the back" of some houses and vaguely point then make off with a crate full of milk to be delivered, they would get bored and go elsewhere then I would go back to getting round the round. If you know what I mean, the real trick was to not get caught on the open road! Believe it or not I had a couple of rounds in my head and didn't need a book to refer to getting around the round, I could do it from memory, I have no idea how as I can't remember what I had for tea nowadays.

Once had a roundsman (technical term for Milkman) come in wanting two new cash bags and the old man was livid as the ones gone missing were not old and were expensive. The roundsman had left them on the front seat of the car and because they were empty he thought well, no-one will bother! I also vaguely remember the "Big Freeze" of 63, only because of the kerfuffle it caused with frozen pipes in the Dairy, I also remember the coke fired upright English Electric steam generator (Boiler to me and you) with the pile of coke next to it and the pantomime of getting it fired up every morning. Ahhhh!, the good old days, well let me tell you, they weren't THAT good!

 

[premmington]

Being a milkman is not for everybody, it is not as simple as being a postman (another "not for everyone job") you have to get the float out, assuming you remembered to put it on charge and some scroat, presumably thinking it was "funny" hasn't unplugged it during the day, then load it up, an average was 120 gallons with some of the more ambitious lads taking out 180 gallons, that is between 960 and 1400 ish bottles plus the cream, steri, yoghurt and eggs some customers want. No wonder I was one of the fittest kids at school. Cross country it was hard to beat me, I had probably done 15 miles plus before I got to school in the morning, but I was given to falling asleep during class, little wonder. My parents would probably be facing jail in today's world!

I clearly remember the winter of '65 or '67 and pushing my mothers mini, boot open and a couple of crates of milk in it, through really deep snow, in shorts! Just getting the milk on the doorstep. None of this "performance technical" clothing either. A duffel coat and a pair of school shoes was "well wrapped". I remember always having cold wet feet. Have some horror stories too. Once, when delivering to a tower block, I got stuck in the lift in Thornaby, for a couple hours, fortunately it was way back in the day and people generally left things be so the float and it's contents were intact when i eventually got out. We would always be mindful of milk being left on the doorstep too, if it was more than two days the Police were called as it was usually a deceased. One while collecting money, with that brown leather cash bag over my shoulder we watched a bloke murdering his wife on the doorstep (in a particularly challenging estate) and scarpered before the Police arrived because we knew it would result in the inevitable tedious hours making statements. It wasn't like the bloke was discreet, the whole cul-de-sac was out. Disturbed a fair few burglaries too and once ran round the back of a house with two pints of stripe top (I didn't drop them) to be bitten by a German Shepherd that clearly lived there.

When I was about thirteen I used to load a float and take it out on my own, if the Police ever showed up I would just say the Roundsman (or Girl) was "round the back" of some houses and vaguely point then make off with a crate full of milk to be delivered, they would get bored and go elsewhere then I would go back to getting round the round. If you know what I mean, the real trick was to not get caught on the open road! Believe it or not I had a couple of rounds in my head and didn't need a book to refer to getting around the round, I could do it from memory, I have no idea how as I can't remember what I had for tea nowadays.

Once had a roundsman (technical term for Milkman) come in wanting two new cash bags and the old man was livid as the ones gone missing were not old and were expensive. The roundsman had left them on the front seat of the car and because they were empty he thought well, no-one will bother! I also vaguely remember the "Big Freeze" of 63, only because of the kerfuffle it caused with frozen pipes in the Dairy, I also remember the coke fired upright English Electric steam generator (Boiler to me and you) with the pile of coke next to it and the pantomime of getting it fired up every morning. Ahhhh!, the good old days, well let me tell you, they weren't THAT good!

Interesting post mate... (A bit of social history)

 

[premmington]

Home - Smith Electric Vehicles

Smith Electric Vehicles manufactures and markets zero-emission commercial electric vehicles that are designed to be a superior alternative to traditional diesel trucks and provide a lower total cost of ownership.

www.smithev.com

They alive and kicking (just) mate...

But trading in the USA only...

 

[DAPPH]

Yea but what if all the energy comes from renewable sources....basically the same stuff thats used to charge up all the electric cars

I think your research is for single use beverage containers...milk bottles are multi use beverage containers Im thinking.

The product life cycle is a very valid point thought....my other half washes all the plastic recycling and I was wondering whether the impact of all the water use has been factored in.

I wonder how much it costs the householder to wash all the things needing it for recycling?

Our dishwasher goes on ovenight on cheap rate electricity . One full load uses around 5 liutres of cold water that is heated to the required wahing temp every thing is almopst sterile after the washing cycle ends. Llikely to cost 50p for the load . Sink or bowl washing is said to cost almost twice to three times as much and it often gets done at least twice a day .

Are we being taken for mugs with this wash everything lark

 

[daleyd]

What’s this washing malarkey? Our recycling either gets washed/rinsed in the dirty water at the end of a sink of pots or if we don’t have a sink of water it’ll get a quick rinse in a bit of cold. It’s not needed to be sparkling clean.

 

[Shox Dr]

If *they* think Im going to spend time and money (water etc) washing something that may very well end up in a tip half way round the world.

You can do one.

 

[GRW]

I wonder how much it costs the householder to wash all the things needing it for recycling?

Our dishwasher goes on ovenight on cheap rate electricity . One full load uses around 5 liutres of cold water that is heated to the required wahing temp every thing is almopst sterile after the washing cycle ends. Llikely to cost 50p for the load . Sink or bowl washing is said to cost almost twice to three times as much and it often gets done at least twice a day .

Are we being taken for mugs with this wash everything lark

The same thought has crossed my mind as well.
If there are tins, then I tend to rinse them & pop them into the recycle straight away - they need very little water to be plenty clean enough then.
Milk bottles tend to go in the dishwasher & we only run full loads (it seems wrong to put out dirty milk bottles for collection - even though we know they'll be batch washed & sterilised before re-use at the milk factory).
Other glass gets rinsed when empty, but not "washed" before hitting the glass recycle bin

 

[GRW]

In terms of actual £ cost per mile, the vehicle cost v economy is a biggie.
When my then partner needed a car 10-years-ago on a budget, we cast about & I did some sums.

The "holy grail" of low-cost motoring is the ever-more elusive Unicorn - a well-made, highly reliable used car.... that never quite got the image & cache to command strong money.
I'd already pretty much narrowed it to looking for a good Mitsubishi Lancer 1.6 petrol.
Found one on an independent lot not too far away. One owner, fsh, 55k miles, Elegance spec, metallic silver.
Right next to it, was a 1.3 Toyota Yaris. Same age, colour, mileage, spec, history..... except the Yaris was nearly double the money.
Some quick calcs based on the Yaris able to offer better fuel mileage on the differential... showed that the "less economical" Lancer could be run for 45K miles, before you hit the Yaris purchase price alone - before putting a litre in it. That was 3-years driving at her then annual usage.

 

[atomant48]

Octopus go is currently 9.5p/kWh night rate?

That’s what we are on, works out at roughly 3p/mile.

I believe it’s cheaper if you can get octopus intelligent, our charger isn’t compatible so we stuck with the go tariff.

Possibly - though my understanding is those rates are quite limited in time slots ? My point is more generic - if you bank on about 30-35p/kw - some fictional average I am making up - and about 3 - 4 miles/kw then you’re in the 10p per mile region. Less than the rate my company pay for business mileage by the way !! And I work on about 15-20p per mile for the Volvo. So not a million miles (no pun) apart - is my point. Both very subjective (obviously!) to cost of diesel and cost of electric !!

 

[fizzy]

Octopus go is currently 9.5p/kWh night rate?

That’s what we are on, works out at roughly 3p/mile.

I believe it’s cheaper if you can get octopus intelligent, our charger isn’t compatible so we stuck with the go tariff.

I just looked at this - maybe a forklift battery at home for winter use would make sense?
But then I saw the costs
9.5p is only for 4 hours at night - remember until the Ukraine war 10p was our NORMAL rate!
Day rate is 30.52p
And the standing charge is pretty hefty at 52.18p
The intelligent one is slightly better - same day charges but you get 6 hours at night for 7.5p per kw/h

Just worked it out - a self install using a forklift battery and inverter charger would take a 5 year payback. We use far more electricity than a typical household. Assuming electricity prices don't drop which hopefully they will.

 

[daleyd]

Possibly - though my understanding is those rates are quite limited in time slots ? My point is more generic - if you bank on about 30-35p/kw - some fictional average I am making up - and about 3 - 4 miles/kw then you’re in the 10p per mile region. Less than the rate my company pay for business mileage by the way !! And I work on about 15-20p per mile for the Volvo. So not a million miles (no pun) apart - is my point. Both very subjective (obviously!) to cost of diesel and cost of electric !!

True enough, but octopus go gives you 4 hours per night, which is enough to add 840 miles per week. More than enough for most, and certainly more than enough for us - wife’s car gets charged about twice a week in normal use, in over 18 months we’ve never used it out of the cheap rate, and I don’t know many with an ev that doesn’t use cheap rate?

 

[daleyd]

I just looked at this - maybe a forklift battery at home for winter use would make sense?
But then I saw the costs
9.5p is only for 4 hours at night - remember until the Ukraine war 10p was our NORMAL rate!
Day rate is 30.52p
And the standing charge is pretty hefty at 52.18p
The intelligent one is slightly better - same day charges but you get 6 hours at night for 7.5p per kw/h

Just worked it out - a self install using a forklift battery and inverter charger would take a 5 year payback. We use far more electricity than a typical household. Assuming electricity prices don't drop which hopefully they will.

I’m not sure what your point is, when the normal rate was 10p the octopus rate was 2.5?

 

[rhubarb7]

It's all OK, we're drilling for more oil and gas now, to provide the extra power and infrastructure for EVs and electric boilers

 

[Greeves246]

On Radio4 this morning someone from a motorway service area group said that they did as the government said and installed six charging points at each service area. Four out of five services cannot be connected as the electricity suppliers say there is insufficient power supply available.

 

[GRW]

I'm wondering.
It seems easy to vilify someone for not moving to the EV.

Of course, the biggest group of motorists who'll be the last to adopt EV's will be the ordinary working person, the lower-paid majority (that proportion who have no viable alternative but to use personal transport of course) & upon whom the Economy depends.
For this group - purchase price & the ability to afford to maintain & Repair (or replace) their transport is fundamental.

They do not have the luxury of having their environmental conscience determine their purchasing decision - it's a fiscal decision.

The "middle class" earners, the reasonably affluent professionals, are buying EV's & supporting the Govt direction of phasing-out of the ICE through Law & Dictate, through restrictions where ICE can be used, and a general squeeze to push out the ICE.

Now, some might say "so what?" "Not my concern, I'm alright etc"...... but what happens when a very large proportion of the working populace cannot travel to work to meet their employment obligations?

A good example might be the army of Care Workers that use their own car to travel to multiple appointments every day providing essential services to the elderly. This group are decidely in the low-paid bracket - what happens when this group can't fulfill their remit due to transport poverty? (I can see one or two perhaps changing their tune due to advancing years when they might need such services ).

As far as I can see, and with typical short-sightedness & zero planning, our Public Parasites haven't instigated any sort of transport infrastructure or policy to address what happens when transport poverty & a non-mobile worker base becomes reality.
As it is - they've not even got past about 10% of the charging network for the EV's, let alone a solution for the massive group who might well be forced to forgoe the joys of EV motoring in favour of Shanks' Pony or the bicycle.

Where's the joined-up thinking?

 

[GRW]

On Radio4 this morning someone from a motorway service area group said that they did as the government said and installed six charging points at each service area. Four out of five services cannot be connected as the electricity suppliers say there is insufficient power supply available.

what a surprise eh!

 

[daleyd]

On Radio4 this morning someone from a motorway service area group said that they did as the government said and installed six charging points at each service area. Four out of five services cannot be connected as the electricity suppliers say there is insufficient power supply available.

You would almost think that someone might have checked this before installing them? Or have they installed them and are waiting for the upgraded infrastructure? Which would be fairly normal as you wouldn’t install upgraded infrastructure to supply nothing?

I mean if they installed them and they would never be connected then whoever okayed it needs a kick in the nads - I’d assume they would be working for/on behalf of the services?

I suppose the full story might be interesting.

 

[fizzy]

You would almost think that someone might have checked this before installing them? Or have they installed them and are waiting for the upgraded infrastructure? Which would be fairly normal as you wouldn’t install upgraded infrastructure to supply nothing?

I mean if they installed them and they would never be connected then whoever okayed it needs a kick in the nads - I’d assume they would be working for/on behalf of the services?

I suppose the full story might be interesting.

It's happening everywhere though.
And the worst thing will be all the horrid new pylons they want to build through our national parks - especially in Scotland. Never mind good for the environment