slim_boy_fat
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Hi,
Thanks slim; yes I agree. Strangely though in retirement the hassles still continue don't they and it's no longer weeks which fly by as they did at work its years which fly by in retirement. I seem to get out of bed; blink then go back to bed. Looking back I don't know how Bron and I did so much whilst holding down a full time job; we physically replaced our detached bungalow roof and the flat roof over our two roomed extension during two weeks holiday (?) from work 30 years ago. At least I'm still here to moan; I like to keep busy and I'm not scared of hard work but I do wish all the silly problems would pester someone else for a change.
I've been looking at electrolytics on the web and these seem excellent quality;
https://uk.farnell.com/kemet/alc80a122dd200/cap-1200uf-200v-alu-elec-qc-snap/dp/2950791
I'll see how I get on once the RS caps arrive and as a last resort I wonder if a new board is available?
Kind regards, Colin.
Thanks slim; yes I agree. Strangely though in retirement the hassles still continue don't they and it's no longer weeks which fly by as they did at work its years which fly by in retirement. I seem to get out of bed; blink then go back to bed. Looking back I don't know how Bron and I did so much whilst holding down a full time job; we physically replaced our detached bungalow roof and the flat roof over our two roomed extension during two weeks holiday (?) from work 30 years ago. At least I'm still here to moan; I like to keep busy and I'm not scared of hard work but I do wish all the silly problems would pester someone else for a change.
I've been looking at electrolytics on the web and these seem excellent quality;
https://uk.farnell.com/kemet/alc80a122dd200/cap-1200uf-200v-alu-elec-qc-snap/dp/2950791
I'll see how I get on once the RS caps arrive and as a last resort I wonder if a new board is available?
Kind regards, Colin.
slim_boy_fat
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Seadog
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Since this PCB does appear to be the main source of power for the whole machine, I think that the caps will charge as soon as, or shortly after, it is plugged in and switched on. In addition to the welding current, power is needed to run the fan, activate displays, set timers, start HF, etc. Some of this may be provided by the small "loose" PCB, with the yellow transformer. This PCB may also trigger the power-up relay ( if that is indeed the function of the relay on the failed board ).
If the above theory is correct, then just powering on after a long period of storage would be sufficient to start the capacitor reforming process.
The AC power cord connects to the rotary double-pole on/off switch on the rear panel. From there it goes to what could be a mains input filter board ( ? ). That board has a fuse on it, which maybe supplies power to the "auxiliary power" PCB that I was speculating on above - via the red & black wires.
The example circuit diagram from R Kraft shows two bridge rectifiers fully in parallel, with AC inputs and negative and positive outputs joined, and as far as I can tell from the photos, that is also the case here. These potted metal-cased rectifiers are rated at 50A each. The Parweld 202P input current is 18 Amps maximum, so that is a generous safety margin.
Hi,
Thanks slim; I think I'm slowing down.
Thanks Seadog. I've just received an email from RS to say the caps have been despatched; I ordered and paid for them on Saturday 24th and now on the 29th they've just been despatched? I confess I've never been keen on RS Components; many years ago when I first started restoring vintage radios I needed components and as we pass the door many times at RS on Gelderd Road in Leeds we parked up one day and I headed to the door; at the door I was stopped in my tracks by a plaque upon the stating more or less if not a trade customer get lost so we did; we drove on to Farnell's and received top class service; I placed the order at Farnell's counter and whilst I waited for the goods wandered to the corner of the store to look at stuff being flogged off very cheaply; absolutely no problem and at the time they only had a minimum order value of £5. We visited many times each time driving straight past RS.
This morning I wanted to drive over to RS to collect 3 packs of 2 capacitors showing as in stock; when I opened a chat line the outcome was collection not allowed on these? The lady on the chat line was excellent pity though about not supplying goods to customers with cash in their hand; I'll never trouble RS again in future.
I've just ordered and paid for the caps from Farnell (Kemet caps); these are much more expensive at £11.64 +VAT each but much higher grade and with free next day delivery so fingers crossed I'll finally receive some caps tomorrow.
What I'm thinking of doing now is to replace the two blown caps with the expensive Kemet caps and assuming the RS caps arrive use these four RS caps to replace the rest of the caps on the board so all six caps will then be brand new?
What a palaver.
Many thanks for your information eddie49; I was just about to post when it popped up. Assuming all goes well and I finally have the board installed with all new six caps I can switch on and just leave it well alone for an hour or so to let it settle down? I believe reforming old electrolytics used to take ages using a Variac but hopefully these will be new stock ready to go. Yes there must be a generous safety margin on the rectifiers because these two seem untroubled and test OK the only doubt I now have is the other side of the caps from the rectifiers but I'll find out shortly.
As I stated right at the beginning I added this thread more for interest than anything knowing lots of guys/gals will own similar machines; I'm pleased the thread has attracted so much interest and so many replies for with I thank everyone; perhaps having to wait so long for the RS caps might be a blessing and has prompted me into upgrading quality on the two failed caps?
Kind regards, Colin.
Thanks slim; I think I'm slowing down.
Thanks Seadog. I've just received an email from RS to say the caps have been despatched; I ordered and paid for them on Saturday 24th and now on the 29th they've just been despatched? I confess I've never been keen on RS Components; many years ago when I first started restoring vintage radios I needed components and as we pass the door many times at RS on Gelderd Road in Leeds we parked up one day and I headed to the door; at the door I was stopped in my tracks by a plaque upon the stating more or less if not a trade customer get lost so we did; we drove on to Farnell's and received top class service; I placed the order at Farnell's counter and whilst I waited for the goods wandered to the corner of the store to look at stuff being flogged off very cheaply; absolutely no problem and at the time they only had a minimum order value of £5. We visited many times each time driving straight past RS.
This morning I wanted to drive over to RS to collect 3 packs of 2 capacitors showing as in stock; when I opened a chat line the outcome was collection not allowed on these? The lady on the chat line was excellent pity though about not supplying goods to customers with cash in their hand; I'll never trouble RS again in future.
I've just ordered and paid for the caps from Farnell (Kemet caps); these are much more expensive at £11.64 +VAT each but much higher grade and with free next day delivery so fingers crossed I'll finally receive some caps tomorrow.
What I'm thinking of doing now is to replace the two blown caps with the expensive Kemet caps and assuming the RS caps arrive use these four RS caps to replace the rest of the caps on the board so all six caps will then be brand new?
What a palaver.
Many thanks for your information eddie49; I was just about to post when it popped up. Assuming all goes well and I finally have the board installed with all new six caps I can switch on and just leave it well alone for an hour or so to let it settle down? I believe reforming old electrolytics used to take ages using a Variac but hopefully these will be new stock ready to go. Yes there must be a generous safety margin on the rectifiers because these two seem untroubled and test OK the only doubt I now have is the other side of the caps from the rectifiers but I'll find out shortly.
As I stated right at the beginning I added this thread more for interest than anything knowing lots of guys/gals will own similar machines; I'm pleased the thread has attracted so much interest and so many replies for with I thank everyone; perhaps having to wait so long for the RS caps might be a blessing and has prompted me into upgrading quality on the two failed caps?
Kind regards, Colin.
Hood
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It is just one of these tings I suppose but RS has always given me excellent service with only one delivery being delayed in all the years (30 or more) I have dealt with them and the reason for the late delivery was snow so I can't complain. I ordered bearings from them last night at 18:51 and they arrived today at 10:30ish.
Farnel have been the opposite, I have only ever ordered 3 things from them and two were late and one of those I got the runaround so cancelled after about a week.
Rapid were good for a long time but then all of a sudden things started being late and sometimes not even turning up. I called to ask why all of a sudden things were poor and the reply was that I should expect such things as I am in the Scottish Highlands, that was news to me, I have lived here all my life and no one ever told me I was a Highlander
Anyway as I said I think it is just one of those things and everyone is different, a couple of bad orders and it can certainly put you off for life.
Farnel have been the opposite, I have only ever ordered 3 things from them and two were late and one of those I got the runaround so cancelled after about a week.
Rapid were good for a long time but then all of a sudden things started being late and sometimes not even turning up. I called to ask why all of a sudden things were poor and the reply was that I should expect such things as I am in the Scottish Highlands, that was news to me, I have lived here all my life and no one ever told me I was a Highlander
Anyway as I said I think it is just one of those things and everyone is different, a couple of bad orders and it can certainly put you off for life.
That is indeed how these 6 caps are wired. However, the common point, where the three paralleled 1200uF positives meet the negatives of the other three, also has a large "tag & screw" connector. This point is theoretically at 163v DC ( half of 230v AC times Root 2 ). I don't know what was connected to that tag.
The two blown capacitors are very solidly connected by wide PCB tracks to each other and to the third one of this paralleled trio ( which didn't blow ). I imagine those eager little electrons would have had an equal chance of reaching all thee caps at the same picosecond in time, so I think we just have to guess that these two suffered from a manufacturing defect or an early-life failure.
If all 6 of these 200v caps are in parallel, the resulting capacitance would be 7200uF, but they would all blow up immediately if 325v DC was applied. If the paralleled set of three ( 3600uF ) is in series with the other parallel trio ( 3600uF ), the effective total capacitance would reduce to 1800uF ( 3600 x 3600 / 3600 + 3600 ), but then the voltage rating will be 400v DC ( 200 + 200 ), and nothing will blow up ... ( ! ) ( ?? )
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Hi,
Good point Hood; yes I agree we tend to remain loyal to those who look after us; I admit I'm totally biased against RS mostly due to the plaque on their entrance wall; at the time so many years ago I thought it's typical of a company to forget its humble beginnings no longer wanting to bother with the small man any longer. I could be wrong about RS but I can only work from my little contact with them. I order goods of all kinds from Screwfix and after placing the order online by the time I reach the store the order is ready; RS have been in business forever?
With my bad luck though I need to be careful saying I like Farnell because I don't yet have their caps in my hand either but I'll update on their service.
I've only ever visited Scotland once Hood; this was whilst courting Bron I think in 1976 mid summer July; we drove 1200 miles in three days in atrocious weather the rain coming down like pencils; on our final night in the tent near Dornie we found a stream running through the tent; it was howling a gale too so we broke camp and returned home to glorious hot sunshine. On our return journey in our Reliant Robin we stopped at services and wagon drivers were complaining about the dire weather; rather like RS and Farnell; once bitten etc. Bron used to visit Scotland every year as a child with her parents to Iona and never once had such bad weather.
What interesting information eddie49; you're obviously a lot more clued up on these circuits than I am and as such I truly appreciate the time and trouble you go to in posting. I'm frustrated with waiting for the caps. RS has sent tracking data and in fairness to them on the order it says up to five days so it's at the latter end but we also had a bank holiday Monday thrown in causing further delay. I used to work in distribution and we had to clear 1350 electric motors daily every ones that could go had to go before I could return home; we gave top class service to the point I would cruise the JIT (just in time) cells collecting finished motors on a fork truck from the production lines.
Kind regards, Colin.
Good point Hood; yes I agree we tend to remain loyal to those who look after us; I admit I'm totally biased against RS mostly due to the plaque on their entrance wall; at the time so many years ago I thought it's typical of a company to forget its humble beginnings no longer wanting to bother with the small man any longer. I could be wrong about RS but I can only work from my little contact with them. I order goods of all kinds from Screwfix and after placing the order online by the time I reach the store the order is ready; RS have been in business forever?
With my bad luck though I need to be careful saying I like Farnell because I don't yet have their caps in my hand either but I'll update on their service.
I've only ever visited Scotland once Hood; this was whilst courting Bron I think in 1976 mid summer July; we drove 1200 miles in three days in atrocious weather the rain coming down like pencils; on our final night in the tent near Dornie we found a stream running through the tent; it was howling a gale too so we broke camp and returned home to glorious hot sunshine. On our return journey in our Reliant Robin we stopped at services and wagon drivers were complaining about the dire weather; rather like RS and Farnell; once bitten etc. Bron used to visit Scotland every year as a child with her parents to Iona and never once had such bad weather.
What interesting information eddie49; you're obviously a lot more clued up on these circuits than I am and as such I truly appreciate the time and trouble you go to in posting. I'm frustrated with waiting for the caps. RS has sent tracking data and in fairness to them on the order it says up to five days so it's at the latter end but we also had a bank holiday Monday thrown in causing further delay. I used to work in distribution and we had to clear 1350 electric motors daily every ones that could go had to go before I could return home; we gave top class service to the point I would cruise the JIT (just in time) cells collecting finished motors on a fork truck from the production lines.
Kind regards, Colin.
slim_boy_fat
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It's not always like that - my pal lives within a few hundred yards of this.
And this is my home town....
Hi,
Thanks for the pictures slim they look beautiful. Bron always mentions the silver sand on Iona and she always loved her holidays there; I'm just unlucky.
Unlike Huddersfield then Hood where we catch plenty of rain especially here on the valley side. I've only ever been abroad twice; once to Scotland with Bron camping and once to Wales to collect a lathe.
Thanks mtt.tr for the tip. I tend to use eBay a lot for so many of the things I want or need; for workshop consumables I enjoy my monthly visit weather permitting to Rufforth Auto Jumble in York; I collect lots of urgent items I didn't know I needed there.
I've just had a quick look at the circuit board; the relay is 30A at 240V or 16A at 260V with a 24VDC coil so this also should be robust enough for the job.
Kind regards, Colin.
Thanks for the pictures slim they look beautiful. Bron always mentions the silver sand on Iona and she always loved her holidays there; I'm just unlucky.
Unlike Huddersfield then Hood where we catch plenty of rain especially here on the valley side. I've only ever been abroad twice; once to Scotland with Bron camping and once to Wales to collect a lathe.
Thanks mtt.tr for the tip. I tend to use eBay a lot for so many of the things I want or need; for workshop consumables I enjoy my monthly visit weather permitting to Rufforth Auto Jumble in York; I collect lots of urgent items I didn't know I needed there.
I've just had a quick look at the circuit board; the relay is 30A at 240V or 16A at 260V with a 24VDC coil so this also should be robust enough for the job.
Kind regards, Colin.
slim_boy_fat
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I collect lots of urgent items I didn't know I needed there.
And the first pic is at Achmelvich, in NW Sutherland, second at Fraserburgh on NE corner of Scotland. In fact, the whole place is awash with the things.
slim_boy_fat
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@Retired A little bit 
fftopic:, but I have one of these fitted to the Myford, along with an NVR at knee height.
It's seldom I'd be operating it when there's anyone present...but you never know.
It matters less with the Tri-Leva as you can just flick which ever lever/gear it's in to take the rotation out of things [unless you end up with both hands trapped] - doesn't stop the motor though, hence the NVR.
Apologies for digression.
fftopic:, but I have one of these fitted to the Myford, along with an NVR at knee height.It's seldom I'd be operating it when there's anyone present...but you never know.
It matters less with the Tri-Leva as you can just flick which ever lever/gear it's in to take the rotation out of things [unless you end up with both hands trapped
] - doesn't stop the motor though, hence the NVR. Apologies for digression.
Hi,
Many thanks slim; I enjoy digressions because many times they are more interesting than the main theme.
I used to have a big self adhesive poster attached to our old central heating boiler saying something like "I'm retired for my own convenience so go away and don't ask".
Well at last the caps finally arrived from RS at dinner time today; not without problem of course; I thought I'd ordered two packs of two capacitors so on the order entered two and received two capacitors only?
I should have ordered four units but with my luck then I'd have received 8 capacitors? My fault due to misunderstanding. All week I've kept checking for delivery updates and each time I looked the caps never moved so they suddenly appeared?
By contrast I ordered two single caps from Farnell yesterday;
The Farnell caps aren't here yet but I'm confident I'll receive them today. Just comparing companies whilst I wait for the caps to sort themselves out; I'll stick with Farnell in future because I've always done well with them.
Back to the plot though; only two caps exploded and since I'm finding it impossible to get my hands on six of these caps before I drop dead I'll just replace the two blown caps with the more expensive Farnell caps and see what happens; pity I can't just put a six inch nail across the terminals and not bother with caps at all; I'm only joking because these days there are people who would do this?
I wonder if I'll have a working welding machine this weekend or will the saga continue; at least I'm not bored in fact bring it on I'm used to hassle.
Kind regards, Colin.
WOW the Farnell caps have just arrived; top class; I'm pleased.
Many thanks slim; I enjoy digressions because many times they are more interesting than the main theme.
I used to have a big self adhesive poster attached to our old central heating boiler saying something like "I'm retired for my own convenience so go away and don't ask".
Well at last the caps finally arrived from RS at dinner time today; not without problem of course; I thought I'd ordered two packs of two capacitors so on the order entered two and received two capacitors only?
I should have ordered four units but with my luck then I'd have received 8 capacitors? My fault due to misunderstanding. All week I've kept checking for delivery updates and each time I looked the caps never moved so they suddenly appeared?
By contrast I ordered two single caps from Farnell yesterday;
The Farnell caps aren't here yet but I'm confident I'll receive them today. Just comparing companies whilst I wait for the caps to sort themselves out; I'll stick with Farnell in future because I've always done well with them.
Back to the plot though; only two caps exploded and since I'm finding it impossible to get my hands on six of these caps before I drop dead I'll just replace the two blown caps with the more expensive Farnell caps and see what happens; pity I can't just put a six inch nail across the terminals and not bother with caps at all; I'm only joking because these days there are people who would do this?
I wonder if I'll have a working welding machine this weekend or will the saga continue; at least I'm not bored in fact bring it on I'm used to hassle.
Kind regards, Colin.
WOW the Farnell caps have just arrived; top class; I'm pleased.
Hi,
Thanks minimutly; given my luck I'm sure the saga will run.
Bron's bought me so much stuff recently I asked her if there was absolutely anything she wanted; new roller blinds for one of the rooms in our rear extension would be nice? We're very familiar with Swift blinds in Huddersfield a store that's been there forever and I worked for 24 years nearby. We had a browse of their website and Bron chose the pattern she liked; I carefully measured at least four times noting all measurements and the pattern details then we headed to Swifts in heavy rush hour traffic. We parked OK but at the store entrance we were stopped by locked doors; a notice proclaimed if doors locked please use intercom which we did; a very nice lady then greeted us informing us it was no longer a store taking direct customer orders and that we needed to order online these days so home we came. We expected to spend around £280 for the four made to measure blinds.
Back home we browsed eBay and I've just bought four larger roller patterned (Papavero) blinds for me to trim to size delivered in three days for £112.50.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EASY-FIT...var=451766175514&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
I think the time has finally come to simply sit in comfort; shop online and save a lot of money. Something's actually gone right at last or it will have if the blinds arrive as expected. Previously I've bought online an ex-police riot helmet for rough wood turning and received two white police shirts; on another order I received a very long lobster keep net now I wonder if I'll receive blinds? It all adds to the rich tapestry of life.
Tomorrow morning is capacitor morning unless of course I get diverted?
Kind regards, Colin.
Thanks minimutly; given my luck I'm sure the saga will run.
Bron's bought me so much stuff recently I asked her if there was absolutely anything she wanted; new roller blinds for one of the rooms in our rear extension would be nice? We're very familiar with Swift blinds in Huddersfield a store that's been there forever and I worked for 24 years nearby. We had a browse of their website and Bron chose the pattern she liked; I carefully measured at least four times noting all measurements and the pattern details then we headed to Swifts in heavy rush hour traffic. We parked OK but at the store entrance we were stopped by locked doors; a notice proclaimed if doors locked please use intercom which we did; a very nice lady then greeted us informing us it was no longer a store taking direct customer orders and that we needed to order online these days so home we came. We expected to spend around £280 for the four made to measure blinds.
Back home we browsed eBay and I've just bought four larger roller patterned (Papavero) blinds for me to trim to size delivered in three days for £112.50.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EASY-FIT...var=451766175514&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
I think the time has finally come to simply sit in comfort; shop online and save a lot of money. Something's actually gone right at last or it will have if the blinds arrive as expected. Previously I've bought online an ex-police riot helmet for rough wood turning and received two white police shirts; on another order I received a very long lobster keep net now I wonder if I'll receive blinds? It all adds to the rich tapestry of life.
Tomorrow morning is capacitor morning unless of course I get diverted?
Kind regards, Colin.
Hi,
Thanks R Kraft for your sound advice; I fully agree but I'm growing weary and older with this silly cap problem; I've already wasted a full week on this with the welder in bits obstructing the bench top; I'll replace the two blown caps tomorrow and see what happens; if they or others blow then I think it's time to ask for the price of a new board than waste lots of more time. I've been looking at second hand industrial TIG welder which run from both single and 3 phase; this Parweld has wound the big key up in my back enough to start annoying me; I wanted to learn TIG welding not electronics? Everyone on the forum have been great with their interest and replies but this is turning into a long playing record with the needle stuck in the groove; it's time to move on and after this experience and still no reply to my enquiry to Parweld I'll not be buying anything else called Parweld. This has become incredibly silly when I'm struggling to buy only six caps; I used to buy thousands of caps for my vintage radio restorations; I wouldn't call the Parweld cheap but it's extremely expensive indeed in its current condition. I don't "need" to TIG weld I thought it would make an interesting hobby. All I've done so far is complain and moan when I should be learning how to TIG weld?
IF the welder fires up with two new caps installed I'll let it run for quite a while and might even then try it on DC arc welding before attempting TIG again.
Kind regards, Colin.
Thanks R Kraft for your sound advice; I fully agree but I'm growing weary and older with this silly cap problem; I've already wasted a full week on this with the welder in bits obstructing the bench top; I'll replace the two blown caps tomorrow and see what happens; if they or others blow then I think it's time to ask for the price of a new board than waste lots of more time. I've been looking at second hand industrial TIG welder which run from both single and 3 phase; this Parweld has wound the big key up in my back enough to start annoying me; I wanted to learn TIG welding not electronics? Everyone on the forum have been great with their interest and replies but this is turning into a long playing record with the needle stuck in the groove; it's time to move on and after this experience and still no reply to my enquiry to Parweld I'll not be buying anything else called Parweld. This has become incredibly silly when I'm struggling to buy only six caps; I used to buy thousands of caps for my vintage radio restorations; I wouldn't call the Parweld cheap but it's extremely expensive indeed in its current condition. I don't "need" to TIG weld I thought it would make an interesting hobby. All I've done so far is complain and moan when I should be learning how to TIG weld?
IF the welder fires up with two new caps installed I'll let it run for quite a while and might even then try it on DC arc welding before attempting TIG again.
Kind regards, Colin.
