CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[Welderpaul]

Off the top of my head, £300 a man i think - thats for one multi run fillet and one butt.. I can check Monday.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Would I be qualified if I did say a c and g course? I'm thinking this is going to stop me doing some jobs like a railing or two, but nothing major in terms of what I do.

Also how do guys with older welding machines get a wps for them? For instance my units not been in production for some time but is more than capable of producing great welds, would the manufacturer be able to provide one or can you write them yourself?

Dan

 

[Welderpaul]

A C&G course will teach you how to weld, but like i say, you need to be tested against 287/9606.
Our WPS's are being written by our RWC (Responsible Welding Co-Ordinator). Once written, a qualified welder needs to weld some samples in accordance with each WPS which are then tested to ensure the actual WPS's are correct.
There are pre-prescribed WPS's written by some machine manufacturers (EWM, Lorch, Kemppi and other) that can be used for Execution classes 2 and down.
You can't write them yourself.

 

[snowcat]

A C&G course will teach you how to weld, but like i say, you need to be tested against 287/9606.
Our WPS's are being written by our RWC (Responsible Welding Co-Ordinator). Once written, a qualified welder needs to weld some samples in accordance with each WPS which are then tested to ensure the actual WPS's are correct.
There are pre-prescribed WPS's written by some machine manufacturers (EWM, Lorch, Kemppi and other) that can be used for Execution classes 2 and down.
You can't write them yourself.

Although a WPS can be created form a PQR?? , assuming that the relevant welders codes are in place.

 

[Welderpaul]

Yeah, as far as i know a WPS can be created from a PQR (Or a WPQR as it is.)

 

[snowcat]

So presumably you could work to pqr and cut the need to have your own wps written by a third party, the problem I envisage is that your wps may need continually adapting for each job which could create ball ache. I take it 1090 has some flexibility in it.

 

[^neo^]

From what I read, the welding co-ordinator/manager/whatever you want to call them, does not have to be a full time employee in the company.
Are we going to see a load of 'subby' welding co-ordinators offering mobile services? Turn up at your workshop, watch you weld the beams, then sign it off?

 

[^neo^]

Off the top of my head, £300 a man i think - thats for one multi run fillet and one butt.. I can check Monday.

How does it work now?
I thought you had to do separate exams for different thicknesses, materials, processes?
So to get qualified for say 1-15mm in steel, ali and stainless on mig, tig and mma could be damn expensive

 

[^neo^]

Sorry to keep posting, but as and when I find some useful info, i'm going to post it !
http://www.thehsqedepartment.com/dr...en-1090-1-and-ce-marking-structural-metalwork

 

[^neo^]

A little bit out of that above article:

"By “series”, the regulations mean any activity that an organisation carries out more than once, not just the production of a series of standard items. For example a factory that makes bespoke staircases is in the business of “series” manufacture of staircases and all of them will need to carry a CE mark. If the same factory produces a single platform as a special commission, this will be exempt. However if the factory decides to diversify into platforms and makes more than one, CE marking will be required."

That says to me you can make one staircase, but any more and you need to be able to CE mark.
Doesn't that sort of defeat the object slightly? "We trust you to be able to make one staircase, but not another one after that just incase"

 

[Welderpaul]

How does it work now?
I thought you had to do separate exams for different thicknesses, materials, processes?
So to get qualified for say 1-15mm in steel, ali and stainless on mig, tig and mma could be damn expensive

You do. Our RWC has been in today, doing some new welder qualifications and some extra ones for lads that don't have qualifications in the required joint set ups.
No point doing anything other than mild steel MIG as that is now 90% of our work. Today i've done multi-run butt welds and fillet welds which covers me from 3mm to 40mm plate.
If you are careful and pick (or your tester picks) the right plate thicknesses for the tests, it can cover quite a range...for example...a 12.5mm plate will cover 6mm to 25mm.

But yes, you need to be qualified for each process, material, thickess and joint set up.

Then...once the standard weld procedures (WPQR's)for you/your company have been written, you need to weld the samples and have them sent off for numerous tests. Today was quite involved - actual current readings taken during welding, interpass temps taken, not to exceed certain temp, but still get the correct amount of pen etc etc.
When you weld these samples, you get your welder quals (above) FOC.

Everyone passed visual inspection, so we will see what happens once they have been tested.
Just need to get everyone on a basic weld inspection course now.

 

[^neo^]

Quite involved then!
Interesting about not exceeding a certain temp. Is this supposed to be monitored in every weld you do, or is it just for the initial training/testing process?

 

[Welderpaul]

I don't know TBH, i asked the RWC whether we needed to test temps....he just gave me those eyes as if to say '..well...you should....'

 

[Shox Dr]

Our RWC has been in today, doing some new welder qualifications and some extra ones for lads that don't have qualifications in the required joint set ups.
Just need to get everyone on a basic weld inspection course now.

So what you can say is unless you have the above Quals', you are going to struggle to find work. And if in work who pays for the costs? Has there been any talk of government assistance with costs for either Employer/employee?

Would these pass?

 

[Welderpaul]

The employer needs to cover the costs of the qualifications. The Manufacturing Advisory Service offer grants to cover some of the costs of obtaining BS1090/CE Marking. MAS are pretty good from what i can see.

Nice welds, yours?

 

[Shox Dr]

The employer needs to cover the costs of the qualifications. The Manufacturing Advisory Service offer grants to cover some of the costs of obtaining BS1090/CE Marking. MAS are pretty good from what i can see.

Nice welds, yours?

If they were do you think I'd post them on here.

They are on supplied racking I'm currently installing. Don't ask about bolt hole line up




Are the quals' transferable?

 

[Welderpaul]

The quals are in the welders name so in theory, yeah, transferable anywhere.
However, if i've paid for them, and you leave/get sacked, i might or might not be willing to get them out of the filing cabinet...

 

[backpurge]

Just a word about 1090 versus 287. ISO1090 states that a test piece produced using dip transfer allows the welder to weld in both dip and spray but not vice versa, so if you do a 10mm plate to give yourself good thickness range coverage you need to weld it in dip otherwise you are going to have to weld relatively thin material in spray transfer, also who is going to write a procedure for 10mm plate and specify dip transfer parameters?

 

[backpurge]

The quals are in the welders name so in theory, yeah, transferable anywhere.
However, if i've paid for them, and you leave/get sacked, i might or might not be willing to get them out of the filing cabinet...

Not 100% sure about that Paul, the certs should also have the company name on them as well and it has always been the case that they are tha companies property, this has always been a major bone of contention in the UK but it stops another company benefiting from someone else paying for their welder quals.

 

[Welderpaul]

Interesting one his, I spoke to our RWC about it; up to now, some of my lads have done the tests themselves i.e arranged and paid for it themselves (Prior to working here), so it gives their name in company name section. One lad had another company name on their cert. Our RWC said it doesn't matter which company name is on there as it is the welder that has passed the test, not the company.

As of this week everyone has updated certs with my company name on, so not an issue anyway.