CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[Robotstar5]

The same happen in electrical game when part p came in the chancres that we're doing a **** job before the rules came in got found out and mostly went and the decent lads stepped up to the plate passed on cost to the customer and moved on. The same will happen here.

Although it did produce the "5 week wonder" a short expensive training course and you're an electrician, with no practical experience or years of training under an experienced mentor.

But you are qualified to carry out electrical work and certify it

 

[madkayaker]

thats ok. the firm you sub to are they going for approval? does en1090 allow you to do there work under there approval as sub contractor?

 

[JRSolutions_82]

thats ok. the firm you sub to are they going for approval? does en1090 allow you to do there work under there approval as sub contractor?

TBH I have sent them an email with a link to this thread as I do not know if they are aware - It is not something I have heard of before but they may already be considering their options. We have just finished a one off steel frame work build a messanine on to increase the size of the workshop to allow us more room to cater for a larger volume of work, I wonder if that would fall into the one off catagory...

 

[JRSolutions_82]

Although it did produce the "5 week wonder" a short expensive training course and you're an electrician, with no practical experience or years of training under an experienced mentor.

But you are qualified to carry out electrical work and certify it

There is obviously some serious pit falls to this type of course but its definitely something I would consider doing if it were available for welding - just to stay within the rules, but if I felt that I was not competent to do a job properly then I would seek further training, would not want to fall flat on my face trying to run before I can run so to speak.....

 

[matt1978]

AFAIK If your a company in your own right you can't come under the umbrella of the company who your getting work off. It's all
About proving quality and traceability. The company you do work for will get the accreditation based on what goes on at their fab shop. Not what you do at yours. The only way round it I could see is that they would have to sub you in as a welder. If you were coded to en 287-1 then that would prob be ok but then to adhere to the letter of the law properly then I guess you would only be allowed to "weld" or fabricate at there premises in the same way as one of the permanent or temporary workers would.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't loan tour accreditation out to a 3rd party company to do work for you in the same way that you can't give your driving licence to someone to drive you home if they don't have one of their own

 

[JRSolutions_82]

Well I guess I am better off for the time being a "One off welding and fabrication service" although that's not going to work either as I am still selling a service that suggests that I am in production ...? I will get in touch with the TWI and see where I stand and what I can do legally for work, yet still work toward being fully compliant/Qualified. Maybe if I start to work toward compliance now then come time of eligibility the cross over will be easy(er) ... Thanks for answering all my questions.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

It seems to me that it's just another way for regulatory bodies and middlemen (Leeches and Parasites in my book) to get their grubby hands on the revenue exchanged between client and contractor. Sorry if that offends anyone but the slow creep of the nanny state into our daily lives gets my goat!
If this is enforced (god forbid), then a lot of competent one man band outfits will go to the wall, not for shoddy workmanship but not wanting to jump through all the hoops and red tape.
I imagine a lot of regulatory bodies will get rich, other companies will jump onto the bandwagon etc., then the regulations will be revised resulting in companies having to re-comply every few years.
Soon you won't be able to repair your own car without being Part C Car Safe compliant!
Some one posted that its the same whether your a large company or a one man band, I disagree as the large company can afford to have one person dedicated to organise the compliance where the one man band will have to find time to study the regs and organise it all.
I am glad I am out of it and it's only my hobby now. In the past I have designed, manufactured and installed numerous balconies, railings, staircases, gates and railings etc. with no structural failures. I used minimal advertising with personal recommendation and word of mouth providing the majority of my work. In the local area a guy set up in direct competition with me and barely lasted 10 months.
Looking back I think I would have jacked it in if I had to try and jump through the hoops of compliance, I wouldn't have been able to find the time!
Rant over.

 

[Welderpaul]

It seems to me that it's just another way for regulatory bodies and middlemen (Leeches and Parasites in my book) to get their grubby hands on the revenue exchanged between client and contractor. Sorry if that offends anyone but the slow creep of the nanny state into our daily lives gets my goat!
If this is enforced (god forbid), then a lot of competent one man band outfits will go to the wall, not for shoddy workmanship but not wanting to jump through all the hoops and red tape.
I imagine a lot of regulatory bodies will get rich, other companies will jump onto the bandwagon etc., then the regulations will be revised resulting in companies having to re-comply every few years.
Soon you won't be able to repair your own car without being Part C Car Safe compliant!
Some one posted that its the same whether your a large company or a one man band, I disagree as the large company can afford to have one person dedicated to organise the compliance where the one man band will have to find time to study the regs and organise it all.
I am glad I am out of it and it's only my hobby now. In the past I have designed, manufactured and installed numerous balconies, railings, staircases, gates and railings etc. with no structural failures. I used minimal advertising with personal recommendation and word of mouth providing the majority of my work. In the local area a guy set up in direct competition with me and barely lasted 10 months.
Looking back I think I would have jacked it in if I had to try and jump through the hoops of compliance, I wouldn't have been able to find the time!
Rant over.

I disagree.

No one; leeches, parasites or other, is in a position to get their hands on revenue exchanged between client and contractor. There is no 'tax' or percentage cut of works carried out.

To be honest, 80% of what is called for in the FPC/1090/CE Marking etc etc is what competent steelwork designers/fabricators should be doing anyway. The accreditation mearly formalises this. A lot of people who are in the process of jumping up and down and moaning about how much work is involved in getting accredited are not, in my book, doing much of what they should be doing anyway.

I have seen some really sorry excuses for structural elements which have been designed and fabricated by a range of people from garden shed welders to very large fab companies. Anything that is done to rid the market from this sort of work is a good thing IMO.

We are not a big company, its costing us about 6K to get accredited (inclusive of ISO9001) and we will have it done much sooner than 1/7/14. There are grants available for this.

 

[TechnicAl]

It seems to me that it's just another way for regulatory bodies and middlemen (Leeches and Parasites in my book) to get their grubby hands on the revenue exchanged between client and contractor. Sorry if that offends anyone but the slow creep of the nanny state into our daily lives gets my goat!
If this is enforced (god forbid), then a lot of competent one man band outfits will go to the wall, not for shoddy workmanship but not wanting to jump through all the hoops and red tape.
I imagine a lot of regulatory bodies will get rich, other companies will jump onto the bandwagon etc., then the regulations will be revised resulting in companies having to re-comply every few years.
Soon you won't be able to repair your own car without being Part C Car Safe compliant!
Some one posted that its the same whether your a large company or a one man band, I disagree as the large company can afford to have one person dedicated to organise the compliance where the one man band will have to find time to study the regs and organise it all.
I am glad I am out of it and it's only my hobby now. In the past I have designed, manufactured and installed numerous balconies, railings, staircases, gates and railings etc. with no structural failures. I used minimal advertising with personal recommendation and word of mouth providing the majority of my work. In the local area a guy set up in direct competition with me and barely lasted 10 months.
Looking back I think I would have jacked it in if I had to try and jump through the hoops of compliance, I wouldn't have been able to find the time!
Rant over.

In part theres some truth in that, however, the regulators start to compete and their prices come down

The most important part is that these regulations keep the cowboys out of the loop. Those that cut the corners, legally or illegally and as a result either take work off the good guys or at best keep the prices down

My personal view is that these regulations benefit good companies and tradesmen proud of their work

Once you get to know your usual inspector (leech or parasite) he will often become a friend and an ally and may even become a source of work

 

[matt1978]

I cannot be right that a painter and decorator could by a sealy mighty mig from Halfords and set up in business fabricating and selling Structural steel. Steel that ultimately provides strength to buildings that are used by dozens of people a day.

All that is happening is they are bringing a level of traceability and quality in a simerla way that applies to pressure vessels.

Most reputable firms are already doing the required things to a excellent standard it's now just a case of formalising it. Any thing that makes it harder/illegal for the chancers and cowboys is a good thing in my eyes.

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

It's no different to just one day waking up and feeling like becoming a driving instructor or cabby that morning.

 

[matt1978]

Yeah but you would assume that that person would of already been taught to drive and passed a test.

Although I do agree that professional drivers in that sense should be better qualified than the average road user

 

[Welderpaul]

11 hours solid today with the CE/ISO 9001 Advisor. Hard going but I suppose i did ask to 'fast track' it.
Nice to be moving forward with this now, and some good info learnt. RWC in place now and weld tests booked.

I understand BS 287 is to be superceded by BS EN ISO 9606-1:2013 this coming March. There is no requirement to re-test welders, and the new qualification under 9606 lasts 3 years rather than 2.

Going for EXC3 - a bit more work, but puts us above a lot of our competitors who are doing EXC2.

Even got homework

 

[Robotstar5]

Even got homework

Well make sure you do it instead of looking at welding forums

 

[TechnicAl]

11 hours solid today with the CE/ISO 9001 Advisor. Hard going but I suppose i did ask to 'fast track' it.
Nice to be moving forward with this now, and some good info learnt. RWC in place now and weld tests booked.

I understand BS 287 is to be superceded by BS EN ISO 9606-1:2013 this coming March. There is no requirement to re-test welders, and the new qualification under 9606 lasts 3 years rather than 2.

Going for EXC3 - a bit more work, but puts us above a lot of our competitors who are doing EXC2.

Even got homework

9606 is valid NOW.........or 2013

 

[Welderpaul]

Really?

I'm being told to hang off actually having the tests done until March otherwise it will come under the 2 year validity period of 287?

 

[TechnicAl]

Really?

I'm being told to hang off actually having the tests done until March otherwise it will come under the 2 year validity period of 287?

That must be the date when yours expire

If you do a new Procedure I would use the 9606

The 2013 at the end signifies the year it was issued

 

[Welderpaul]

Ours don't expire until October.

Pfft, that's half the battle with this job, getting two/three different stories on absolutely everything.
Cheers Al.

 

[nickk]

Ours don't expire until October.

Pfft, that's half the battle with this job, getting two/three different stories on absolutely everything.
Cheers Al.

so......who is the "horses mouth" ?

 

[backpurge]

Couple of interesting links re EN 287 v EN 9606-1
http://codeaweld.com/news/major-news-welding-and-fabrication-industry/
http://www.ewf.be/media/documentosD...4-13-ewf-guide-for-transition-287-to-9606.pdf