Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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3834-2 ; -3 or -4 ?
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craigthewelder
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We are going for EXC 3 as we doing work for the nuclear industry.
One thing that we have been told that if there is no design code on the drawings supplied to us we have to assume its a EXC 2 job. This is another thing which seems unfair, surely that responsibility should be down to whoever has designed it.
One thing that we have been told that if there is no design code on the drawings supplied to us we have to assume its a EXC 2 job. This is another thing which seems unfair, surely that responsibility should be down to whoever has designed it.
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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EXC 3 means 3834-2. very demanding, but very rewarding as well.
what responsibility are you talking about? the fact that it needs to be well engineered, or the choice which EXC class the steelwork falls under?
If the latter, the meaning off the EN1090 is that it has at least some quality control. EXC 1 is very "forgiving" on certains aspects. EXC 2 has at least some standard quality requirements.
Most architects nowadays still have no clue about the contects or about the intent of the EN1090. So, those that do not know, will also not declare a EXC class. ANd in that case, a steel fabricator is legally bound to work to at least EXC 2 requirements.
what responsibility are you talking about? the fact that it needs to be well engineered, or the choice which EXC class the steelwork falls under?
If the latter, the meaning off the EN1090 is that it has at least some quality control. EXC 1 is very "forgiving" on certains aspects. EXC 2 has at least some standard quality requirements.
Most architects nowadays still have no clue about the contects or about the intent of the EN1090. So, those that do not know, will also not declare a EXC class. ANd in that case, a steel fabricator is legally bound to work to at least EXC 2 requirements.
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Well.....it's here
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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I did get some phone calls... 
billy wheeler
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Virtually the whole industry has been making load bearing structures, without qualifications for years, I know plenty of workshops where no welder has any form of paperwork to say they can weld, but have been welding for years, now all of a sudden their work is not good enough, it has to have a bit of paper, and a bit of paper means pound notes for some one sat behind a desk somewhere who has probably never even seen a welder . As you can tell it ****** me off.
craigthewelder
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Doing My PCN course next week, should be fun..............
matt1978
www.lorch.eu
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I agree almost 100% with what you have said Billy, but some of the structural steel places I have been over the years during my job as selling capital equipment, some of the welding has been truly shocking. no idea of how to set up a mig welder, no concept balancing Wirespeed and voltage correctly. Just squeeze the trigger and hope for the best
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So now it's here, and some firms have the certificate to allow them to trade in the fabricated products, the next question is how is the certificate being used?
I mean, are people issuing ce compliance certificates with delivery? Once the fab firm has the certificate, is that good enough? Put it in a frame on the wall....?
I mean, are people issuing ce compliance certificates with delivery? Once the fab firm has the certificate, is that good enough? Put it in a frame on the wall....?
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The company 'certificate' or FPC certificate goes on the wall with pride of place. You can provide a copy to Clients if they ask but I believe not always necessary.
Once the job is done (and paid for!!!!) You issue a Declaration of Performance and a CE Mark label which references the drawings for the job, member marks etc and that's it. A bit unimpressive really considering everything that goes into it.
I'll email you a copy of our DoP and CE Mark labels if your bothered.
Ere, I heard from our Consultant that the deadline has been shoved back a year. I laughed it off but he's adamant. Who knows.
Once the job is done (and paid for!!!!) You issue a Declaration of Performance and a CE Mark label which references the drawings for the job, member marks etc and that's it. A bit unimpressive really considering everything that goes into it.
I'll email you a copy of our DoP and CE Mark labels if your bothered.
Ere, I heard from our Consultant that the deadline has been shoved back a year. I laughed it off but he's adamant. Who knows.
Paul.
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I heard the same from a steel rep, also said there is a campaign gathering to force a re think to make it less far reaching, it may just be wishful thinking or one of those rumors that gets around,
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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Seriously doubt that it will be postponed (again!), as that would be a european matter (UK alone cannot make such decisions).
And that's not really going to happen.
They are currently re-writing EN1090-2 (the technical demands of steel constructions) though, because it does contain some errors and non-logic stuff.
And that's not really going to happen.
They are currently re-writing EN1090-2 (the technical demands of steel constructions) though, because it does contain some errors and non-logic stuff.
craigthewelder
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This PCN course has a lot more to it than i imagined!
craigthewelder
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Ok, if anyone is interested.............
As a welding co-ordinator you need to have your PCN Welding Inspector level 2. I thought it would be easy as pie bit it is far from that.Its a lot to remember in just a week, luckily I've had a very good tutor. I have my exam on Monday (6 1/4 hours) so wish me luck!
As a welding co-ordinator you need to have your PCN Welding Inspector level 2. I thought it would be easy as pie bit it is far from that.Its a lot to remember in just a week, luckily I've had a very good tutor. I have my exam on Monday (6 1/4 hours) so wish me luck!
Just trying to get my head round all of this. There seems to be no clear picture for any aspect of this whole CE marking thing. The procedure 1090 writes like a fabrication production line mass producing structural elements. Its a fair stretch from a one man band never producing the same job twice. What is the exemption for non-series production if everything that is structural steel is included? As for coding, the local welder coding establishment knew nothing about this and said that since there was no defined procedure they knew of they wouldn't be able to qualify anyone. Some local companies have had an inspector in, performed a butt and a fillet about 100mm long and hey-ho now apparently coded to esteemed guru level.
Yes, cleaning up and regulating the industry will take out some of the cowboys but the lack of clear communication and horrendous expense will take out more respectable businesses and the cowboys will carry on anyway.
Yes, cleaning up and regulating the industry will take out some of the cowboys but the lack of clear communication and horrendous expense will take out more respectable businesses and the cowboys will carry on anyway.
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Kent
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Just read that, have to say enforcement off big sites will take years to implement. One question it talks a lot about class CC1 examples agricultural buildings were persons do not normally enter (eg. stores) green houses are given as examples. I assume things like dog kennels with a roof might also come under this? Anyhow to cut to the chase, it says a company with class2 can work on 1 and 2 , a company with class 3 can work on 1,2 and three. Coming to it and here is the Rub is there no class 1 Can anyone still do class 1?
Also earlier in the thread someone mentioned classification of handrails with a drop of over 2ft now being structural ( I doubt that 100% because of the imperial measurement
). Were is the detail of structural is it that class 1 isn't? To me although a handrail needs to be safe it does not support anything as regards a building so by pure common sense and English language is non structural- certainly never seen one with load calcs done! 
If I need to be fully compliant and mark up my work to make a steel shed or dog kennel or hand rail, its no more than another unenforceable law, though I have yet to see official paperwork that makes it clear at the lesser end of things and starts the compliant company required start point
Kent
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The Onus seems to be placed on the main contractor or person handling the tender process is this correct? Reason I ask is I am going to ask someone who is currently building a school and their QS if they know anything about this as I recon they don't.
Kent,
All balustrades are to various BS EN codes and are structural elements designed to resist certain loadings....
They are also classed safety critical items and are covered by EN1090
EN1090 will eventually deal with all the cowboys who think suitable balustrade and steelwork is a few random bits of metal blobbed
together with a halfords mig welder, by a man with a spotted hat who calls himself a welder/fabricator, but was a butcher or bus driver last week.......
I run a small company with 6 employees, fabricating and erecting steelwork/metalwork and have achieved EN1090 EXC 2 compliance without any drama....
We are not an ISO9001 company and started the EN1090 process from a blank canvas
A bit of common sense, some effort and a positive attitude are all that is required...
Also, Does it matter if your Client, QS, Building Inspector, or Consulting Engineer knows nothing about EN1090 ?
YOU DO...! (or should do, ignorance is not a defence) It is a legal requirement and you cant just shirk away from it....
Would you drive a car without an MOT/INSURANCE ?
Would you let someone work on your boiler with out GAS SAFE ?
Would you buy your kids cheap Chinese toys without a CE Mark ?
Would you want to let your family and friends stand on a metal structure and lean on a metal balustrade manufactured by a bunch of Muppets ?
Hundreds of so-called 'steelwork fabrication' companies are manufacturing steelwork with members/connections/joints designed and welded by personnel with
no formal training or welding qualifications (other than the spotted hat!) and do not even understand welding procedures/traceability/material grades etc....
A thick coat of red primer covers up a lot more than poor welding........
Would you have an operation by a man calling himself a surgeon, with no qualifications or proof of competence, but he owns a stethoscope and a white coat ?
These companies are ruining the industry and driving rates down for us companies who have some pride in the products we manufacture...
LONG LIVE EN1090 - BRING ON THE FUTURE REVISIONS WHICH WILL DEAL WITH ERECTION AND SITE WELDING....
Best Regards
Steve
All balustrades are to various BS EN codes and are structural elements designed to resist certain loadings....
They are also classed safety critical items and are covered by EN1090
EN1090 will eventually deal with all the cowboys who think suitable balustrade and steelwork is a few random bits of metal blobbed
together with a halfords mig welder, by a man with a spotted hat who calls himself a welder/fabricator, but was a butcher or bus driver last week.......
I run a small company with 6 employees, fabricating and erecting steelwork/metalwork and have achieved EN1090 EXC 2 compliance without any drama....
We are not an ISO9001 company and started the EN1090 process from a blank canvas
A bit of common sense, some effort and a positive attitude are all that is required...
Also, Does it matter if your Client, QS, Building Inspector, or Consulting Engineer knows nothing about EN1090 ?
YOU DO...! (or should do, ignorance is not a defence) It is a legal requirement and you cant just shirk away from it....
Would you drive a car without an MOT/INSURANCE ?
Would you let someone work on your boiler with out GAS SAFE ?
Would you buy your kids cheap Chinese toys without a CE Mark ?
Would you want to let your family and friends stand on a metal structure and lean on a metal balustrade manufactured by a bunch of Muppets ?
Hundreds of so-called 'steelwork fabrication' companies are manufacturing steelwork with members/connections/joints designed and welded by personnel with
no formal training or welding qualifications (other than the spotted hat!) and do not even understand welding procedures/traceability/material grades etc....
A thick coat of red primer covers up a lot more than poor welding........
Would you have an operation by a man calling himself a surgeon, with no qualifications or proof of competence, but he owns a stethoscope and a white coat ?
These companies are ruining the industry and driving rates down for us companies who have some pride in the products we manufacture...
LONG LIVE EN1090 - BRING ON THE FUTURE REVISIONS WHICH WILL DEAL WITH ERECTION AND SITE WELDING....
Best Regards
Steve
