CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[AndyStobbs]

RWLSTEVE: Not everyone without EN1090 is a bufoon, plenty of small businesses just like yoirs will be driven under, perhaps the writting was on the wall for them but I don't think their loss should be a happy event.

 

[RWLSTEVE]

If any of you who are trading illegally wish to gain EN1090 compliance, here's a simple step by step guide on how to do it........

1) STOP MANUFACTURING EN1090 PRODUCTS (THIS WILL GIVE YOU THE INCENTIVE TO CONCENTRATE, AND PROTECT YOU FROM POSSIBLE **** STORM)
2) CONTACT BSI AND PURCHASE A COPY OF EN1090-1, EN1090-2 STEEL & En1090-3 ALLY (if applicable)
3) READ IT, READ IT AGAIN, UNDERSTAND IT.
4) IMPLEMENT THE REQUIRED FPC, MANAGEMENT CONTROL AND WELDING QUALITY PLAN
5) EMPLOY SOMEONE WITH THE RELEVANT EXPERIENCE AND QUALIFICATIONS TO BE YOUR RWC
5) TEST YOUR SYSTEM ON A SAMPLE PROJECT (FOR EXAMPLE - MAKE A NEW STEEL RACK FOR STOCK YARD)
6) BOOK AN GAP ANALYSIS WITH NOTIFIED BODY
7) IMPLEMENT FINDINGS OF GAP ANALYSIS AND RE TEST ON A SAMPLE PROJECT
8) BOOK A STAGE 2 AUDIT
9) "HOPEFULLY" PASS STAGE 2 AND GAIN EN1090 ACCREDITATION.... YAY....

6-9 MONTHS AND IT WILL ALL BE OVER AND YOU WILL HAVE A COMPANY TO BE PROUD OF....

Mod: language edit

 

[RWLSTEVE]

Andy,

Plenty of small companies who are more than capable of 1090 compliance are being very negative about it and trying to disregard it... It should be looked upon as a good thing...
It does not cost a fortune to implement and honestly will lead to better quality and profitability in the long run (I am an example of this)

There are also many many companies around my part of the country who are complete buffons and chancers who have ruined the respect for this industry
I think that the loss of these is a very happy event.... May even let off some fireworks.....!


Steve

 

[Welderpaul]

I got this document today from an SCCS assessor. It is a list of currently agreed items that has been complied by EU members that are not to be covered by 1090. Its not an exhaustive list and will be subject to change and is not yet a formal document, but gives some indication of products that can be manufactured by companies that do not have 1090 accreditation.
A lot of the items on the list, whilst not coming under 1090, do come under other BS's or legislation.

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

The list above is to be used with caution.
This list was a draft written by a member of the committee that goes over the EN1090-series, never ment to be seen by the outside world.
Certainly not "a list of currently agreed items".

Here's the full document:
http://www.fusionpoint.be/temp/CEN-TC135_N0686_N686_Products_under_the_scope_of_EN_1090-1.pdf

Once the committee saw that this list was made public, they have written a note that this is not a valid document, not te be used or referenced whatsoever.
So again, although the contents are mostly (!) correct, this is not an official document.

This is information that already has been spread weeks ago.

 

[Kent]

I got this document today from an SCCS assessor. It is a list of currently agreed items that has been complied by EU members that are not to be covered by 1090. Its not an exhaustive list and will be subject to change and is not yet a formal document, but gives some indication of products that can be manufactured by companies that do not have 1090 accreditation.
A lot of the items on the list, whilst not coming under 1090, do come under other BS's or legislation.

that's the more useful stuff that should be widely published

 

[steviec_lj]

So, just to throw a spanner in the works...

What would be the whistleblowing procedure on EN1090? I know of 3 companies who've disregarded it and are still employing unqualified, but time-served, welders, making chassis, temporary accommodation, handrails and site cabins. None of which, when I left their employ operated a WPS or Quality Inspection..

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

that's the more useful stuff that should be widely published

you mean, drafts that haven't been proofread and aren't 100% accurate? and only reflect the opinion of one individual instead of the whole committee?

I fully agree though that there should be more information towards the public about what falls under the CPR and what not.

In Belgium, one NoBo (Vinçotte) uses this checklist, and when all questions are "yes", EN1090-1 is applicable.
1. Is it a metal component?
2. Is it fabricated in a workplace (not in situ)?
3. Is it "placed on the market" (= sold or even for free)?
4. Is its destination a building or a civil construction?
5. Is it load-bearing?
6. Will it be part of a "fixed" construction?
7. Can it be calculated by Eurocodes?
8. Is the component not explicitly mentioned as part of a DoC of DoP another regulation (eg. machinery regulation/directive, PED, low voltage, ....)
9. Does it not explicitly fall under another regulation or directive?
10. Is it not excluded by the scope of the EN1090-series?

=> 1 time "no" (or "incorrect" for the last two questions) and you are off the EN1090-hook.

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

So, just to throw a spanner in the works...

What would be the whistleblowing procedure on EN1090? I know of 3 companies who've disregarded it and are still employing unqualified, but time-served, welders, making chassis, temporary accommodation, handrails and site cabins. None of which, when I left their employ operated a WPS or Quality Inspection..

It should be your government, as this is a federal thing. Dunno about the UK, but "we" have a government service called "economy" (economic affairs?), which deals with everything related to buying&selling/trade/industry/...
They are the ones that see to it that the regulations are followed. Can't really be much different in the UK.

 

[Welderpaul]

All good info Dimitri, thanks.

It's the Department of Trade and Industry that police it, I believe.

 

[malcolm]

I've been reading this thread. I'm surprised how unclear the information is about it. Part P was much clearer and was aimed so squarely at me that I now follow the regs before ignoring it. The regs are easy to find for Part P. This one is less obvious.

Would it apply to the manufacture of some simple flitch plates on site to hold together a spreading roof in a really old building? The structural engineers I've encountered so far seem worried about their liability insurance which makes them want to specify replacement buildings when a bit of tying together is all that is needed. I guess if the DTI are policing then it doesn't apply to me.

 

[AndyStobbs]

All good info Dimitri, thanks.

It's the Department of Trade and Industry that police it, I believe.

Well that sits better than the image of vindictive parties from 1090 firms running around like the SS telling tales on other firms.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

I have been reading this thread with interest as the company I work for may have to go through 1090. My question is, are there now going to be a hell of a lot more welders wanting big pay rises as they will now be coded? Or is it the case that because there will be a lot more coded welders about it will just devalue the welders that are already coded and know one will be getting a pay rise anytime soon?

Dave.

 

[craigthewelder]

Well in line with the regulations if your not coded your not a welder. I doubt people will be wanting pay rises, i think they will be grateful enough to still have a job.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

I fully agree, and I for one will look forward to it. The only point I was going for was that there are a lot of 'welders' who aren't qualified at the moment all over the country who work in fab shops that are perfectly competent and who make staircases, railings, handrails etc to a very good standard. Up until now they haven't had to be coded for this work so the companies never bothered with the extra expense. These welders although good, generally get paid less than there coded counterparts. So now they will also have to be coded will now be wanting to get paid the same as a currently coded welder. Not sure if that makes sense lol but just a thought.

 

[steviec_lj]

Right, having read a couple of documents and pages linked to in this very topic, I'm a little more enlightened that it won't, touch wood, affect anything that I have planned for the near future.

What I'd like clarification on is what IS covered by EN1090, I've read through the document link to by WelderPaul as to some items that aren't covered or policed under EN1090, which was reassuring.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Quick question, does aluminium guttering fall under 1090? We will be welding some connecter pieces and down pipe section soon.

 

[Kent]

its hardly a proper coding, many companies have asked for and used weld tests to their own WP and tested those welds before a guy can work on a particular job within the subcontracting company. Its not like a semi skilled mig welder suddenly becomes something special, the Boss can always just bring another lad in and test him (though I have my thoughts on what will be occurring having seen it in the past on jobs)

 

[matt1978]

Kent, what do you mean by it's not a proper coding?

If the welder has passed a test to BS EN 287-1 (or equivalent) and has welded the joint to a proven qualified Welding Procedure then what else is there to do?

The welders in regard to EN 1090 exc 2 and and above have to be tested to EN 287-1 and all of the welding proceedures have to be qualified.

 

[steviec_lj]

Kent will still be trying to get out of it, so he can make the structural steel buildings for his mate. I'd link to the post/topic but can't on Tapatalk.

From what I've read, all welders that have anything to do with the finished product need to be at the same level, coding, etc.

The idea of EN1090 is an attempt to stop the cowboys in the industry.. Jump on the band wagon and embrace it, or play cowboy elsewhere.