CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[matt1978]

My biggest bugbear is there was no need to regulate the industry, especially as the are other trades where it would be more logical to regulate but are not such easy targets.
Why not regulate the servicing and repair of motor vehicles, because it would cause a huge backlash from the large percentage of the population who service and repair their own vehicles. We allow untrained persons to modify and change vehicles that can weigh in excess of a 2 tons and exceed speeds of 150mph and yet it is unregulated.
It makes no sense.
No welder/fabricators that I now knew this was coming, they certainly weren't consulted.

But that is also another common misconception, the CPD, which is the white paper from which EN 1090 derives, was first debated in the early 90's. It encompasses everything to do with Construction. Its not only about Structural Steel. They didn't wake up one morning and think, I know, lets mess up the lives of small Structural Steel fabricators. Structural Steel is an integral part of the Construction Industry, so it stands to reason that it was included within the CPD, but so was, suspended ceilings, Sand, Gravel, Cement, Bricks and Blocks, Double Glazing etc etc etc. All of these industries relating to construction have already or will within the future go through something similar.

You can argue all day long on the merit of a CE mark, but IF you are to CE mark a product then it's not just a meaningless stamp, it is supposed to be a sign of quality to a given standard. The CE Mark can only be stamped onto a product provided it was built in accordance to various norms and standards (in this case EN 1090).

As Dimitri said, the same won't happen with Structural Steel regarding imports from the Far East and South America because companies located in these areas must be EN 1090 accredited and they will only gain accreditation provided they have been audited by a European Notified Body. In my opinion this is how the CE mark should be policed on every single item that bears the Mark.

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

No welder/fabricators that I now knew this was coming, they certainly weren't consulted.

google for 89/106/EEC . The legislation on the base of it all dates back from 1989. this is a free pdf you'll certainly find interesting. This was law, albeit national governments did not impose it to its inhabitants.
Later, a european consensus was found in the form of the EN1090. Partly, the national groups like British Constructional Steelwork Association should have done more to inform the target companies. We see the exact same problem.

Before any company even considers shutting down, due to scaremongering about how much it's going to cost, they should engage an EN 1090 Notified body to conduct a "gap analysis". They will take a snap shot of how the company is currently operating taking into account all of the systems for traceability already in place and then give a fair an accurate overview of what is further required. From that you are able to cost up exactly how much compliance will cost.

This is a good point, this can be carried out by either a NoBo or a qualified independent consultant, and will give a good view of what is still expected. Costs for a small company (EXC2) will be starting in the order of 4000€ or 3000 GBP + yearly a small sum for qualification of weldors and procedures. This initial amount includes the president of the firm taking a course (RWC) that will yield him a whole lot of revenue later on, by a better understanding of codes and technical background. For example if you take note of the utility factor of your welds, you can drop your costs for non destructive testing by a whole lot.

 

[Kent]

I apologise if a caused personal offence but I am getting just a tad angry at the statements like it will only cost say £3k GDP, if your a small fabricator operating in a rural area you certainly wouldn't spend that on marketing in a whole year and as for spending time training - grandmother and sucking eggs comes to mind not forgetting we are talking "presidents" who actually roll their sleeves up and are essential to the business and jobs day to day (one , two three men outfits etc). Rather than spend "about 3k" many will either throw in the towel on this or carry on like nothing happened. Also what about the farms because I know full well the bigger companies that can put a few grand down to being worth it are just not interested in coming out and doing or pricing the work, it being too small to make much of what they need to see in a job (already some gate companies are saying £700 + vat minimum order). Tell you what a farmer does when he finds something a hassle he cracks on and does it himself and you want to see some of the welding those lads can turn out with old damp rods and some dirty old steel they have had at the back of the cow shed for years, I was looking at a big Agricultural trailer the other day that looked like it was welded up by pigeons at their latrine!

I do see the point with reference to the motor trade and people doing their own work on cars being far more relevant on safety, however face facts structural failure in steelwork is incredibly rare when you take away small builders having a go with say a 80amp stick plant going downhill and DIY I recon its almost non existent. The structural engineer will normally want to see the bigger jobs in place on site for his own piece of mind anyhow in my experience. Liability and corporate manslaughter laws have not changed there has always been penalties if things go bad

Still its here, for how long we the British public remain able to put up with a failing Europe and its rules is another matter

 

[waddycall]

Does anyone know anymore about this or able to confirm it?.....
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2014/07/02/u-turn-sees-hand-rail-firms-exempted-from-ce-marks/

 

[steviec_lj]

Read through the topics on here, quite the discussion about it. They seem to be policing "structural" steel, but what structural actually is, is anyone's guess since they seem to be making items that I'd class as structural, exempt.

It's going to take years, and thousands, for companies to become compliant..

 

[denlow60]

Read through the topics on here, quite the discussion about it. They seem to be policing "structural" steel, but what structural actually is, is anyone's guess since they seem to be making items that I'd class as structural, exempt.

It's going to take years, and thousands, for companies to become compliant..

I guess you do not know what you're talking about

 

[Tigman]

ooh ! no good arguing about this subject ! its here and it sucks , but we gotta get on with it one way or the other , handrails have been taken out of the equation so ive heard ! be thankful for some work that we can all do !

 

[denlow60]

garden fencing , you do not have to be certified, but a balcony railing must be certified.

 

[Tigman]

so be it !
we can all weld them but if you aint got the certs then you aint supposed to do it !

 

[steviec_lj]

I guess you do not know what you're talking about

Obviously not. Please do enlighten us with your wealth of knowledge on the subject!

 

[waddycall]

Thanks for the replies. I'm a cowboy part time gates and railings villain wanting to know where I stand. I spoke to MAS a week or two ago and they couldn't give me any clear information. I had decided to give it up but may change my mind if there's any clarification on what is and isn't covered.

 

[Tigman]

have a click on Denlow60 last post open the link theres a whacking great list of can and cant on there , have a read ! gates and railings no problems

 

[waddycall]

have a click on Denlow60 last post open the link theres a whacking great list of can and cant on there , have a read ! gates and railings no problems

Yep, had a read, cheers. Never know what to believe that's the problem!

 

[jongjp]

I have heard about it.but still thank you for these infos....

 

[Kent]

garden fencing , you do not have to be certified, but a balcony railing must be certified.

So the list says site work is excluded? what the definition, work on site might I ask? if we are talking safety and quality is the most important aspect not being missed anyhow? I mean its a lot easier to sort yourself out a good position and prop in the workshop and of course you don't usually have any issues with shielding gasses being blown or contamination from paints, corrosion etc..

So I cant work on a silo at the shop because I have no inspector, WP supervisor, auditor and all that "stuff" to be able to register but if I have one to go out to on site that has already failed in some way - crack on, yes? good oh! Not competent in the eyes of the suits to do what I was doing in the shop but out in the field with a genny and or extension lead positional I am ok?

 

[Tigman]

Site based activities not covered by EN 1090 ! me thinks it soon will be !

 

[Kent]

Site based activities not covered by EN 1090 ! me thinks it soon will be !

How? if we are talking repair of existing it cannot meet the requirement of EN marking of materials etc. Its good to know this isn't under its realm though

 

[Tigman]

Fabricating on site ? Drilling channels to bolt together on site ? drilling and cleating ? what is there to repair on site on structural steel ? surely if you go in to repair , it has failed . you go in to install or add to existing , not really repairs is it ?

 

[Kent]

Fabricating on site ? Drilling channels to bolt together on site ? drilling and cleating ? what is there to repair on site on structural steel ? surely if you go in to repair , it has failed . you go in to install or add to existing , not really repairs is it ?

Come on now, is this your actually your trade? - if so your not doing agricultural for sure. The whole classification has gone further than workable. I suspect what has gone wrong here is nobody bothered to approach those who were not all using the same pot

 

[Tigman]

im with you all the way , its not workable for the small man , site work is ok for now but it will come under the cosh in the end ! in my opinion that is ! I dont like the rules anymore than the next man and i certainly cant afford to pay out anymore to get the creditation so ........ Ive worked on farms for years by the way , never built a barn or repaired one , but made plenty of gates , steam boilers and pipework . bottling plant and repaired carousel wheels in milking parlour , been around a bit