CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[matt1978]

You'd have to double check, but Kent and Tigman, you have both mentioned a lot about Agricultural buildings.

AFAIK if they are not inhabited by humans, they will fall under exc 1 and TBH in the scheme of things EN 1090 EXC 1 accreditation is more of a paperwork excersise. No welding procedures etc required.

 

[steviec_lj]

This is at least some good news. Father-in-Law has a few agri buildings to be repaired, so in the grand scheme of things, I **could** still go through the EN1090 accreditation as there are plenty of repairs to look at.

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

Father-in-Law has a few agri buildings to be repaired

Repairwork of existing structures (in the field) does not fall under EN1090 (unless specified by the client).
If it's actually specified by the client, give them two prices, one with and one without the declaration of performance. They'll soon change their minds.

Matt's remark about agricultural buildings is correct: EXC1 is not really a big deal, but it's also worth considering the next step up (EXC2) as the market for EXC2 will be a lot bigger.

 

[Kent]

I just plain object to this stuff at present. I might well do it but the big thing is the sort of work I do cannot carry non productive staff and at present consists of me. The suggestion of going in with other competitors seems crazy.

Bigger markets need not necessarily carry more net profit and all said and done that's why we work, new car sales is a massive sector- try drawing a decent net profit from it.

 

[waddycall]

Is anyone aware of any sort of idiots guide to ce marking structural steel? I know some building regs have compliance guides to make it easier to work with and I was wondering if there's something similar for this.
My conversation with MAS a few weeks ago left me even more confused.

 

[Rudi McAnichal]

Virtually all agricultural buildings will have humans working inside at some time.


Under the old BS 5502 arrangement, the design class depended partly on the proportion of time a building would be occupied by humans. Vegetable packing shed (almost continuously occupied for long periods); animal housing (staff regularly inside for feeding, health check/inspection, bedding, manure removal, cleaning); crop stores & animal feed stores (occupied during loading, unloading, crop inspection, crop processing); machinery stores (staff inside to manoeuvre machines in and out of store); etc, etc. Does EN1090 not have any similar requirement?

 

[Brad93]

Finding out about this has basically just put an end to our business. It would mean getting rid of our old but good equipment, spending thousands on new equipment and codings, and even more on the actual certification process.
What a joke. I can see this all collapsing, they're not going to prosecute thousands of firms without a massive up throw against the EU.
My father is a farrier/blacksmith, somehow this nation and many other first world countries have survived for hundreds of years without regulation beyond an apprenticeship etc and now we the hardworking often coded craftsmen building the offices for these bureaucrats who probably haven't seen a weld in their life require us to fork out for a piece of paper and a CE mark. I don't think so!

 

[matt1978]

Why have you got to get rid of your old equipment? For most of it, you only need V/A meters fitted and for them to be calibrated

 

[Kent]

Finding out about this has basically just put an end to our business. It would mean getting rid of our old but good equipment, spending thousands on new equipment and codings, and even more on the actual certification process.
What a joke. I can see this all collapsing, they're not going to prosecute thousands of firms without a massive up throw against the EU.
My father is a farrier/blacksmith, somehow this nation and many other first world countries have survived for hundreds of years without regulation beyond an apprenticeship etc and now we the hardworking often coded craftsmen building the offices for these bureaucrats who probably haven't seen a weld in their life require us to fork out for a piece of paper and a CE mark. I don't think so!

The EU collapsed a while back they (those we elect to cosy themselves into a job and then another new job never earned) just haven't admitted it yet. Do you think this just effects us welders? I know it doesn't and something to think of at the ballot box perhaps? Spain and Italy are effectively Bankrupt and want more of our money to "stimulate" their economies. For now they can forget it because I feel by the time the next election is over the reversal will be hitting the gas hard and changing gear with the wheel well turned.

 

[Kent]

Why have you got to get rid of your old equipment? For most of it, you only need V/A meters fitted and for them to be calibrated

Simples but its not just that is it

 

[matt1978]

There is obviously more to it but the statement was we have got to get rid of all of our old but good gear and replace with new.

I asked why? As there are plenty of people who will condem machines and tell them the "have" to buy new when in most cases V/A meters fitted and calibration are ample.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

How does one go about fitting an ammeter? Voltmeter just goes across the live and return, but amps are supposed to be in line, the meter must have to be huge to allow the welding current to pass though or am i getting it wrong?!

Dan

 

[Hitch]

You can buy an add on bo I'm told by the guy who did our calibration s last year. Simple to wire in apparently, and because the box is calibrated, it is transferable between machines without much fuss.

 

[premmington]

You can buy an add on bo I'm told by the guy who did our calibration s last year. Simple to wire in apparently, and because the box is calibrated, it is transferable between machines without much fuss.

Tec Arc sell them.

 

[Kent]

can anyone tell me what a bad welder I am for not knowing exactly what my plant was putting out but instead relying on what I saw during the process and set up and heard during the set up and process.

How does it work if I drop the Amps to run a bead v up with MMA, do I need write that down and get some noddy in a white lab coat to write it in the book for posterity or something?

 

[Brad93]

Kent I make you right there how on earth would you begin to write down the welding process for TIG welding using a foot pedal to manually pulse or reduce/increase amps in response to watching the weld pool?

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

Virtually all agricultural buildings will have humans working inside at some time.
(...)

Does EN1090 not have any similar requirement?

yes. very simple, very easy: only 4 categories, of which the higher two are basically for dynamically loaded, heavily populated constructions.

Kent I make you right there how on earth would you begin to write down the welding process for TIG welding using a foot pedal to manually pulse or reduce/increase amps in response to watching the weld pool?

a good WPS should have ranges for everything. not a 30°bevel but 25-35 degree.
Not 130 amps but 110 to 150 amps. not 10 ipm but anything in a certain range.

same with a footpedal. nominal 110-130 amps but range is 20-130 amps. you do add "nominal" for the main current.
For automated pulse, you note the parameters (low and high current, pulse duration and frequency). I've used two sets of parameters in the past, had them tested, and wrote both on a WPS as a range. That way everything in between is covered as well. this is a bit tricky, but if you chose your parameters well, it works.

just fyi, lower exc don't need volt or ammeters. if you have a knob that turns on your machine, and you mark with a sharpie or something that such position is 80 - 100 - 120 - 140 - ... amps, and you calibrate it an check it annualy, that is enough for a NoBo. cost: zero, just the checking. no need to throw anything out the door or buy fancy equipment.

 

[Kent]

Once you into parameters it makes a set standard to be recorded pretty much worthless 110 amps at the wrong time or 130 at the wrong time is a big difference to the right time for either! Heck weld everything half tolerance continuous and you cant fail but get a perfect weld right? LOL
I love Welding procedures and know of quite a few on serious level stuff that were copied and pasted in so many times no body actually knew were the heck they actually came from or why it was the way it was.

 

[Brad93]

So doing repairs to this sort of thing, a winch tower with a walkway and hand rail around it, would you have to be EN 1090 to do it onsite?

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

Repairwork of existing structures (in the field) does not fall under EN1090 (unless specified by the client).

There most likely will be other paperwork necessary to work on that sort of equipment, but it won't be the EN1090. I'm thinking safety/security things, internal procedures for when things go wrong, fire hazard, ...