Brad93
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Oh yeah we comply with all that just Now we've got half a tonne of painted, punched and welded scrap sitting in the workshop now that we can't put up.
- Thread starter matt1978
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Oh yeah we comply with all that just Now we've got half a tonne of painted, punched and welded scrap sitting in the workshop now that we can't put up.
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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you can't put up because of what ... ? EN1090 requirement?
Brad93
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Yes from what I can make out. We took the job earlier in the year, cut away bent frame for access walkway, we have bought steel (CE marked) and fabbed a replacement for the bent stuff we cut away. Now due to this EN 1090 legally we can't out it up.
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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Well good luck with that... But if that's what the contract specified in the first place, and your firm quoted this, there will be quite some cursing going on now. But I doubt the client can demand EN1090 compliance based on legal grounds. Even though this is a mixed situation: you fabbed something up in a workshop, then you'll be doing the repair on site.
Really depends on what was in the original contract. But hey, don't take my word for it, that's where lawyers come in.
Really depends on what was in the original contract. But hey, don't take my word for it, that's where lawyers come in.
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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It is either of those two cases:
1) EN1090 is a legal requirement when you fulfill certain conditions. I gave a brief overview/checklist of these a few pages back in this thread. When applicable, you are legally bound to work under the EN1090. you cannot escape from this, but on the other hand, it's not that big a deal for the lower execution classes.
2) If you do not fall under these conditions, you do not have to worry about the EN1090, you can pretty much do as you want. UNLESS the client specifies EN1090, but in that case, both parties have to agree. this definitely affects your quote for the work.
1) EN1090 is a legal requirement when you fulfill certain conditions. I gave a brief overview/checklist of these a few pages back in this thread. When applicable, you are legally bound to work under the EN1090. you cannot escape from this, but on the other hand, it's not that big a deal for the lower execution classes.
2) If you do not fall under these conditions, you do not have to worry about the EN1090, you can pretty much do as you want. UNLESS the client specifies EN1090, but in that case, both parties have to agree. this definitely affects your quote for the work.
matt1978
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Being able to set a machine up with parameters suitable for welding up the job in hand is part and parcel of being a good welding tradesman.
Welding procedures are not the same or a replacement for a good tradesman. They are partly there to assist him/her.
It's also there to create a level of traceability, if the main client has given the job to 2 or 3 sub contractors and they are all welding to the same weld procedure them in theory all of the welding should be up to the same approved quality. If you only rely'd on the welder's opinion himself of how much voltage and amperage to use then you can bet that no 3 of the contractors would be producing work to the same standard.
Welders welding right next to each other in the same shop on the same job have parameters that vary wildly. They both cannot be right, but I would bet that they both believe that they are right, It happens every day.
Kent
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So what makes the guy who sets the parameters such a genius? Go back to were I mentioned copy and paste
dan.taylor.1
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Presumably you set some parameters, test the weld, and if it tests ok the parameters are given the ok.
matt1978
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Nothing makes him a genius. A weld procedure is "proof" that the weld settings are good and provide a acceptable weld, against which ever spec the client has asked for.
There is nothing wrong pursè in copy and pasting weld procedures provided that the parameters are a suitable match for the job in hand. In most cases the procedure will have to be qualified anyway which means that someone will have to weld the joint in accordance to the procedure and then have it tested to ensure it passes.
If the settings were good enough for one person (and proved via a test) then why shouldn't they be good enough for the next person welding the same job under the same conditions
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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I'm not going into this discussion, but just want to remind people that there is a +/- 25% tolerance on heat input for a PQR.
Nobody said welding engineers or similar are geniuses, neither does a welding engineer expect that a weldor welds at the exact parameters he prescribes.
As for the foot pedal and large variable amps, whoever writes the WPS does expect that the weldor at least has a basic understanding of what he does. No WPS will ever prevent a retard weldor to **Language** up.
The knowledge of the weldor is validated by the weldor's certificate(s), this is actual proof that he knows what he does.
As I said, none of this paperwork will prevent **Language** ups, nor will it ever guarantee faultless work.
But If I have to hire a weldor / subcontractor, that is not on the paylist of my own firm and that I further do not know, a weldor's certificate is proof that he at least once (in the last 6 months) knew how to do things right. which is better than nothing. As nowadays almost everything is subcontracted, this is where the need for the paperwork comes from.
Nobody said welding engineers or similar are geniuses, neither does a welding engineer expect that a weldor welds at the exact parameters he prescribes.
As for the foot pedal and large variable amps, whoever writes the WPS does expect that the weldor at least has a basic understanding of what he does. No WPS will ever prevent a retard weldor to **Language** up.
The knowledge of the weldor is validated by the weldor's certificate(s), this is actual proof that he knows what he does.
As I said, none of this paperwork will prevent **Language** ups, nor will it ever guarantee faultless work.
But If I have to hire a weldor / subcontractor, that is not on the paylist of my own firm and that I further do not know, a weldor's certificate is proof that he at least once (in the last 6 months) knew how to do things right. which is better than nothing. As nowadays almost everything is subcontracted, this is where the need for the paperwork comes from.
Kent
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In "theory" you are of course quite correct. The second word sums up my thoughts, there is of course the fact that settings are only as relevant as technique. I wont harp on about copy and paste because I already made my point on that
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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I doubt you're going to get a full answer on that through a forum, but having a good overview of how the company works, is the best start.
Everything you do needs to be documented.
-checking request for quotes (this includes seeing if your weldors have the correct certificates, do you need extra PQR's, is the piece not too large for your shop or to heavy for your cranes, ...)
-designing/drawing, either done in-house or customer provided
-buying materials
-storing materials
-cutting/drilling/machining/welding/heat-straightening/...
-testing of the product, of the weldments, ...
-what to do with non-conformities
-documentation that comes with the product
-delivery
-...
This seems a bigger deal than it actually is, after all, apart from the certificates, you do all of this already. Now you just need to document it.
edit: I'm thinking EXC2. If you're not sure, it probably is.
Everything you do needs to be documented.
-checking request for quotes (this includes seeing if your weldors have the correct certificates, do you need extra PQR's, is the piece not too large for your shop or to heavy for your cranes, ...)
-designing/drawing, either done in-house or customer provided
-buying materials
-storing materials
-cutting/drilling/machining/welding/heat-straightening/...
-testing of the product, of the weldments, ...
-what to do with non-conformities
-documentation that comes with the product
-delivery
-...
This seems a bigger deal than it actually is, after all, apart from the certificates, you do all of this already. Now you just need to document it.
edit: I'm thinking EXC2. If you're not sure, it probably is.
I'm 21 I've served 2 years of my time as a fabricator/welder, I'm thinking about getting private weld training to become a coded welder. Pipe welder tube or vessel or underwater. This will obviously cost me a few quid so I'm just looking for some advice on whether it will be worth spending £1000+ on it?
Dimitri De Spiegeleer
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This document has been revised in the meanwhile, and now contains two lists (both non-exhaustive).
One with things that do not fall under EN1090; one list with things that do fall under EN1090.
This is now still a draft, and will be signed beginning of december in Lisboa by the official EN1090 workgroup, and will then be spread.
Railings, handrails, canopies, balconies, ... as well as load-bearing beams, columns, silos and storage tanks, ... will fall under EN1090.
Fences that only serve to provide a visual boundary between eg. your garden and the street, as well as typical blacksmith craft (mailboxes, wheather cocks, ...) will be exempt from EN1090.
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