Characteristics of a "Bad Rod"?

[GeorgeB]

Only welding half a rod as a bead in the flat position, is no basis to form a proper opinion good or bad about any electrode.

I agree that welding a bead on 6mm plate is quite easy to get right but that's exactly the sort of demo that many people put forward here when enthusing about, or criticising, various welder/rod set ups. I suggest it's not unlike the tests which Muggins did.

I also agree it's not much of a basis for writing up a five star review along the lines that Lidl rods are probably a 'best buy, highly recommended.' That's my present hunch, though.

There's a world of difference between (a) pouring praise on something or somebody, on the basis of very little exposure or evidence, and (b) damning the item or person as 'crap' and 'cheap rubbish' as Muggins says. His tests are minimal as well. Nobody much minds (a) but all hell can break loose if you go around making critical comments as in (b). I think we owe it to others reading these threads to be more careful before opening a thread about 'bad rods' where the main focus was Lidl rods.

Also, was the price range you quoted for the Lorch H140 inclusive or exclusive of VAT? And what is the duty cycle when the H140 is run at its maximum of 140 amps?

 

[Muggins the Mug]

(b) damning the item or person as 'crap' and 'cheap rubbish' as Muggins says. His tests are minimal as well. Nobody much minds (a) but all hell can break loose if you go around making critical comments as in (b). I think we owe it to others reading these threads to be more careful before opening a thread about 'bad rods' where the main focus was Lidl rods.

It's calling a spade a spade, something a lot of people are afraid to do these days - just in case they offend people's sensibilities.

I've tested about 8-10 of those rods and the result is always the same - rubbish! I'm calling it for what it is. Perhaps you got a different batch or perhaps they suit your buzz box better than mine, but in my case they are useless as can be seen below.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=102140&postcount=53

Regards,

Ian.

 

[matt1978]

Also, was the price range you quoted for the Lorch H140 inclusive or exclusive of VAT? And what is the duty cycle when the H140 is run at its maximum of 140 amps?

Yes, including VAT for around that price.

Duty cycle is 30% at 140 amps @ 40 degrees

 

[scarecrow]

Deja vu

georgeb You gave ages going on about how thin you could weld with an ark welder insisting that we were all wrong when we told you it was a waste of time but you persist until you tried to put it into practice on a real project where you cannot control all the parameters then you agreed you would be better off with an mig.
when doing a project you only get one chance to weld it probably and with the price of materials and the amount of time it takes to re-cut a peace cheep welders and cheep rods can become very expensive

If you want to try and convince us go and do a project and at the very least try both expensive and cheep rods

if you don't see any difference between welding with an cheep ac welder and the dc lorch then you can only put that down too not having enough experience and believe me it's not the duty cycle even if they swapped duty cycle I would still go for the lorch
I have the cheep ac welder which I converted to dc and the difference is phenomenal and there is just as big a difference between that and the lorch WELDING is all about controlling the weld pool the more stable the ark the easier it is.
yes you can weld with a cheep ac welder but I haven't used my welder on ac since it was converted which should tell you something

 

[snowcat]

the problem with cheep rods is inconsistancy, I for many years used straight everyday BOC 6013s for all standard work, at the time they were made by Lincoln they preformed well for a bargain price, then some bright spark decided that they could source the rods cheaply from wherever, they were rotten and just would not weld, 7018s were a step worse needing huge OVC just to get a strike......non branded rods are notorious for these tacts hoping the less informed don't notice....one batch fine, the next fit for the scrap bin.......

recently iv been battling with flux cored wires, the welds were unacceptable, between me and T/A we deduced the wire could be the culprit despite being from a reputable brand, FOC I was sent a roll of Lincoln to try, although better results were still unsatisfactory, come today different project I re ran the Lincoln wire, perfect, it appears my hardox supplier may have been outsourcing non genuine oxelsund steels and the materials at fault.....

I have wasted days on this really, It made me question my ability's, if i was learning and something was adrift I would have probably never had got to the bottom, and blamed machine, parameters, ability etc, the same can happen with cheep consumables, and its much harder from someone non seasoned to pick up on.....


BTW Matt did Derick buy a couple of machines from you?

 

[wyn]

it appears my hardox supplier may have been outsourcing non genuine oxelsund steels and the materials at fault.....

Blimey i wonder what oxelosund would have to say about that if he is one of their agents.

 

[GeorgeB]

It's calling a spade a spade...I've tested about 8-10 of those rods and the result is always the same - rubbish! I'm calling it for what it is.

But, with respect it's not what it is! It's not an objective fact. I hope I've shown that, i.e. with the half-decent result I produced with Lidl rods. I doubt very much if there is any difference between batches. I also doubt if there's much difference between your Aldi welder and my Cosmo welder in terms of how they 'interact' with the Lidl rods. No, the main difference is between you and me. We're both novice welders, but I can get quite good results with Lidl rods, and you say you can't. It's just seems a pity that you might deter other people from trying them.

 

[snowcat]

Blimey i wonder what oxelosund would have to say about that if he is one of their agents.

I might be wrong, so I'm mentioning no names, but I'm deeply suspicious, ironically the bottom plate welds fine, Its just the toe...... It could be a rogue batch, a major problem iv had is arc blow..... I could prove knowt however its just the welding bat senses telling me its that plate......

 

[GeorgeB]

Deja vu

georgeb You gave ages going on about how thin you could weld with an ark welder insisting that we were all wrong when we told you it was a waste of time

It's not a waste of time, actually. After a hesitant start in the real world of car welding, I'm not doing too badly. I'll post some photos if and when this work gets through the MOT. Most of the time taken seems to be in cutting new metal and lining it up, etc. I agree a MIG welder might be a bit quicker for the actual welding but I'm not doing too badly with the arc welder. Even if the MIG welder was a bit quicker, it's the higher cost of running the MIG (gas, tips, etc) which would put me off.

You wonder why I don't see "any difference between welding with an cheap ac welder and the dc lorch". Just in the context of a simple weld on 6mm plate, the photo I posted is the reason. If you think the Lorch beads are much different in the photo, how? And remember, too, that I was 'handicapped' by using the Lidl rods, if you support Muggins' stance.

 

[snowcat]

Inch per inch of weld a MIG plant is much cheaper to run.......

 

[Muggins the Mug]

But, with respect it's not what it is! It's not an objective fact. I hope I've shown that, i.e. with the half-decent result I produced with Lidl rods. I doubt very much if there is any difference between batches. I also doubt if there's much difference between your Aldi welder and my Cosmo welder in terms of how they 'interact' with the Lidl rods. No, the main difference is between you and me. We're both novice welders, but I can get quite good results with Lidl rods, and you say you can't. It's just seems a pity that you might deter other people from trying them.

At the end of the day, my opinion is my opinion. As you correctly pointed out, it's subjective. How much weight anyone reading this thread attaches to my posts is probably the same as they would attach to any other inexperienced beginners comments, including yours.

To be honest, the Aldi rods that came with the welder were okay and the cheap ones I got from eBay were even better - but I got them based on trying similar ones that a friend sent to me, so therefore I went on personal recommendations.

I would have to say that when someone with more experience than me speaks on this forum, I tend to listen and take heed. Perhaps this is something that you could emulate too?

Regards,

Ian.

 

[GeorgeB]

I would have to say that when someone with more experience than me speaks on this forum, I tend to listen and take heed. Perhaps this is something that you could emulate too?

I came across an old school report recently and there was a comment that I was slightly anti-establishment. Perhaps that has something to do with my approach! The vast majority of people on here are well-meaning but I would have missed out on a lot of 'discoveries' and spent vast sums of money on expensive gear, if I'd followed some of the advice generally given.

 

[scarecrow]

i give up

 

[matt1978]

BTW Matt did Derick buy a couple of machines from you?

Yeah he bought HT and T, I think he already had a buyer for the HT, he said he got an enquiry for a Pulse mig too, but not heard anything for a few days.

 

[TechnicAl]

I came across an old school report recently and there was a comment that I was slightly anti-establishment. QUOTE]

I think you could have described me similarly

I used to get awful reports. My elder brother used to say I would end up as a Priest (only subject that gave me good report) little did he know but I told them I was a Catholic and got excused lessons. The doddery old codger of a teacher never missed me.

The Science teacher forecast that I would end up in Prison. Imagine his surprise when some years later he attended a Metallurgy lecture I gave.

Back on topic. This thread could never end. I think we should agree to disagree.

 

[weldequip]

This thread could never end. I think we should agree to disagree

We haven't done the Pepsi challenge yet!
weldequip

 

[snowcat]

Yeah he bought HT and T, I think he already had a buyer for the HT, he said he got an enquiry for a Pulse mig too, but not heard anything for a few days.

That was me mate who was his buyer who tried my T series, he didn't buy in the end, and I think Derick's got the machines on his hire fleet....

 

[matt1978]

That was me mate who was his buyer who tried my T series, he didn't buy in the end, and I think Derick's got the machines on his hire fleet....

Nah, I am sure he definately sold one, because I seem to remember seeing the warranty registration form being filled in and faxed back.

It was early December I think.

How are things with you anyway?

 

[snowcat]

Nah, I am sure he definately sold one, because I seem to remember seeing the warranty registration form being filled in and faxed back.

It was early December I think.

How are things with you anyway?

he proberbly put it into someone else, that was the one he was touting into my mate, his funds went on a manipulator.....first time iv caught up for months so i reckon it was december....

things are OK thanks busy considering how flat many people are......

 

[matt1978]

things are OK thanks busy considering how flat many people are......

Good, I am glad that you are busy.........its certainly slowed down a lot out there.

Distributors going bust, big fabricators going to the wall, its certainly not going to be easy this year!

I hope all this money the Bank of England is going to print will make a difference.