chrisg3103
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Similar but different enough to raise alarm bells. Metal case has different vents, no handle and the control plug is only 2 pin not 5.
- Thread starter MetalMonkey
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Hood
I am obsessed.
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Got to be someone brave enough, if only I didn't have the Sherman
chrisg3103
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I'll let someone else take the hit on this one one leap of faith amidst adversity is enough for me 
Something else looked off, the whole front panels different.
Torch connectors are on the bottom rather than the side, so pretty good chance it's not got the same board layout, jasic/sherman main boards are mounted either side of the chassis, why the torch connectors are top bottom on them
one leap of faith amidst adversity is enough for me Something else looked off, the whole front panels different.
Torch connectors are on the bottom rather than the side, so pretty good chance it's not got the same board layout, jasic/sherman main boards are mounted either side of the chassis, why the torch connectors are top bottom on them
DavidL
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Wow! Another Magnum; different case, similar thing, but cheaper
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183786541901
The DC version
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123744297083
There's a whole series of Magnum THF on eBay. This is very interesting.
Anyone fancy a job branding welders?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183786541901
The DC version
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123744297083
There's a whole series of Magnum THF on eBay. This is very interesting.
Anyone fancy a job branding welders?
DavidL
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A further interesting development. Here's an exclusive transcript of discussions at Acme Welding Machines Inc.
Worker: Ok sir; good and bad news. Those Sherman ACDC Tigs are selling like hotcakes. Bad news, the sellers of the orange version - Jayzeek, I think - aren't too happy.
Boss: The Jayzeek boys did run the line on "special UK electronics" didn't they? High quality components and all that?
Worker: Yes sir, but the punters called it and opened them up
Boss: &£$!"
Worker: What now, sir?
Boss: Ok, here's the deal. Pick a colour. Swap the plugs around. Lose the pedal wiring and indicator light.
Worker: But sir; what colour could look even cheaper than Invacar blue? I know! Yellow! Somewhere between vomit and mustard will do the job nicely. We'll even get rid of the carrying handle. We can do another version in all-steel too, to throw them off!
Boss: Excellent work, Jenkins!
Sorry - it's been a long day. Writing some sherman fan fiction is an escape
Worker: Ok sir; good and bad news. Those Sherman ACDC Tigs are selling like hotcakes. Bad news, the sellers of the orange version - Jayzeek, I think - aren't too happy.
Boss: The Jayzeek boys did run the line on "special UK electronics" didn't they? High quality components and all that?
Worker: Yes sir, but the punters called it and opened them up
Boss: &£$!"
Worker: What now, sir?
Boss: Ok, here's the deal. Pick a colour. Swap the plugs around. Lose the pedal wiring and indicator light.
Worker: But sir; what colour could look even cheaper than Invacar blue? I know! Yellow! Somewhere between vomit and mustard will do the job nicely. We'll even get rid of the carrying handle. We can do another version in all-steel too, to throw them off!
Boss: Excellent work, Jenkins!
Sorry - it's been a long day. Writing some sherman fan fiction is an escape
chrisg3103
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Wow! Another Magnum; different case, similar thing, but cheaper
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183786541901
The DC version
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123744297083
There's a whole series of Magnum THF on eBay. This is very interesting.
Anyone fancy a job branding welders?
The 'new design' magnum looks like a step back! But it is red, so must weld faster
Interesting the control panel is common to them all bar the dc version. Maybe the manufacturer of the cases and panels weren't too fussy who they sold too
Munkul
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All you folks getting excited about rebranded copies of copies of rebranded copies... 
All of these Sherman/Magnum/stahlwerk/whatever machines are cheap machines from X, Y or Z factory in China. They're all cheap and nasty.
The ONLY one to get excited over is the Sherman 206p, which appears to be a cut price Jasic, which IS quite a good little machine.
Sherman isn't any better a brand than any of the others. It just so happens that they rebranded a run of machines from a known "good" manufacturer. Still to be determined about their QC and reliability, but the Jasic design is really quite good.
You're still going to be devastated if it breaks and no-one will fix it.
All of these Sherman/Magnum/stahlwerk/whatever machines are cheap machines from X, Y or Z factory in China. They're all cheap and nasty.
The ONLY one to get excited over is the Sherman 206p, which appears to be a cut price Jasic, which IS quite a good little machine.
Sherman isn't any better a brand than any of the others. It just so happens that they rebranded a run of machines from a known "good" manufacturer. Still to be determined about their QC and reliability, but the Jasic design is really quite good.
You're still going to be devastated if it breaks and no-one will fix it.
Munkul
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So it does.
It appears Jasic factories will do anything for the right price... Suppose it's not too much different to WTL products... except WTL brands are generally well established...
Moody branded anything is still moody, though!
It appears Jasic factories will do anything for the right price... Suppose it's not too much different to WTL products... except WTL brands are generally well established...
Moody branded anything is still moody, though!
DavidL
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Munkul,
I think it's worth remembering there are two very different perspectives here:
If you're using the machines for work / earning, and a machine that costs a couple of grand would pay for itself in a week or so (or crucially, the loss of a machine would cost one of these cheap rebrands in a day or two), then I absolutely agree. You're paying for the service and the metal/plastic box is a nice extra. You might take a punt on something like this as a "throw it in the van", but you'll stick with the known brands. They know this and a) provide more service so have higher costs and b) know this "over a barrel" and up prices accordingly. Like a few of us said earlier; Jasic's response to bbe555 was certainly disingenuous and has left a bit of a bad taste (certainly for bbe555!).
For some of us, it's been hobbyist (maybe a little more for some) access to a nice-to-use machine that simply wouldn't have happened otherwise. As you say, time will tell on the actual machine quality, but I think it's been a really interesting insight into brand engineering, reputation, and markup. It reminds me a lot of motorcycle bits. Used to be a cheap hobby or mode of transport, but it's now super heavy on the market mark-up.
I *would* like to try a cheap inverter MIG though, so if anyone wants to take a punt on any of those...
-David
I think it's worth remembering there are two very different perspectives here:
If you're using the machines for work / earning, and a machine that costs a couple of grand would pay for itself in a week or so (or crucially, the loss of a machine would cost one of these cheap rebrands in a day or two), then I absolutely agree. You're paying for the service and the metal/plastic box is a nice extra. You might take a punt on something like this as a "throw it in the van", but you'll stick with the known brands. They know this and a) provide more service so have higher costs and b) know this "over a barrel" and up prices accordingly. Like a few of us said earlier; Jasic's response to bbe555 was certainly disingenuous and has left a bit of a bad taste (certainly for bbe555!).
For some of us, it's been hobbyist (maybe a little more for some) access to a nice-to-use machine that simply wouldn't have happened otherwise. As you say, time will tell on the actual machine quality, but I think it's been a really interesting insight into brand engineering, reputation, and markup. It reminds me a lot of motorcycle bits. Used to be a cheap hobby or mode of transport, but it's now super heavy on the market mark-up.
I *would* like to try a cheap inverter MIG though, so if anyone wants to take a punt on any of those...
-David
I don't think there's a "Jasic" factory to be honest. They're all Chinese machines which have been rebranded and customised with a few tweaks to make them unique or compliant for specific markets and specific brands. It's common in most industries... Jasic certainly won't own the rights to the original design or who other products can be supplied to.
matt1978
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There most certainly is a Jasic Factory, by all accounts it is one of the largest Inverter manufacturers in the world, I havent been but some of my colleagues have.
I would say its more like Jasic as a manufacturer are also producing for other brand across the world.
As you know I work for Lorch and over the years Lorch has produced machines for many other manufacturers, either as wholely produced machines, where they are completely produced at Lorch factory but painted in OEM colours and branding or, where they have supplied part of a machine (eg the main inverter module) and the OEM has put this into their own housing etc.
I think the days of "copies of copies" like as was the case when the Chinese first got into welding machines are much fewer and far between.
Munkul
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Those are Jasic designs specifically. As Matt says, they own their own factory/ies, in fact they got in to trouble with worker rights a year or two back, bullying and intimidation.
Whether they have any 3rd party contract production I'm not sure, wouldn't have thought so, definitely not for their own branded machines.
Can I just put this forward though.
If jasic can sell this equivalent machine for circa £1300.
And sherman circa £450,
But the jasic has a 5 year warranty and the sherman a 12month warranty.
Couldn't jasic do a "hobby range" ie beige, which they sell a very similar machine for home users ie us for say £595 with 12month warranty but with uk backup? Then keep the orange as a professional range with the 5 year warranty at its price.
That way keep both users happy and keep talking peoples money?
I would love to know what the actual production costs of a machine like this would be. As . . .
Made in China, shipped to Poland and sold shipped to uk for £450. Everyone must be making a profit of say some% +shipping.
If jasic can sell this equivalent machine for circa £1300.
And sherman circa £450,
But the jasic has a 5 year warranty and the sherman a 12month warranty.
Couldn't jasic do a "hobby range" ie beige, which they sell a very similar machine for home users ie us for say £595 with 12month warranty but with uk backup? Then keep the orange as a professional range with the 5 year warranty at its price.
That way keep both users happy and keep talking peoples money?
I would love to know what the actual production costs of a machine like this would be. As . . .
Made in China, shipped to Poland and sold shipped to uk for £450. Everyone must be making a profit of say some% +shipping.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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So I suspect Jasic is simply the main manufacturer of the machines....sometimes they are branded Jasic (orange ones)....sometimes Sherman....there are at least 4-5 rebrands of this specific machine that I've come across. Some carry the Jasic branding in smaller letters along side the local rebrand name.
So if you find a rebranded Jasic it isn't a copy or a clone...but it may differ from their main Jasic branded offering (ie the orange machine). Just happens in this case this machine inside is identical...which is why it was (past tense) such a bargain I think.
Thats how I understood it...may be wrong of course! Its no different to any other tool manufacturer selling tools under a range of brands....same tools different prices....whatever it takes to get market share.
Well this is what google says....
"Jasic Technology Company Ltd.
(Chinese: 佳士科技; pinyin: Jiāshì Kējì; Jyutping: gaai1 si6 fo1 gei6) is a Chinesecorporation operating out of Shenzhen, in the province of Guangdong. Its headquarters are in Pingshan New District."
So if you find a rebranded Jasic it isn't a copy or a clone...but it may differ from their main Jasic branded offering (ie the orange machine). Just happens in this case this machine inside is identical...which is why it was (past tense) such a bargain I think.
Thats how I understood it...may be wrong of course! Its no different to any other tool manufacturer selling tools under a range of brands....same tools different prices....whatever it takes to get market share.
Well this is what google says....
"Jasic Technology Company Ltd.
(Chinese: 佳士科技; pinyin: Jiāshì Kējì; Jyutping: gaai1 si6 fo1 gei6) is a Chinesecorporation operating out of Shenzhen, in the province of Guangdong. Its headquarters are in Pingshan New District."
chrisg3103
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Went a bit further than bullying, is a whole wiki page on 'the jasic incident' I came across it when researching the 200 miniway back, kind of made me think twice about buying their products tbh, people going 'missing' etc. But I'll leave it at that, no politics or football
As for brand engineering, been going on for decades! My first tig is a 1940's era BOC argonarc, scant information on it, till I found the P&H tig exactly the same! Think BOC were buying up surplus P&H machines from america and rebranding them here
did find a cool manual for the P&H from the military, got information on how to destroy it to prevent it falling into the enemy's hands, setting up earth spikes and hooking into power grids
Munkul
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Went a bit further than bullying, is a whole wiki page on 'the jasic incident' I came across it when researching the 200 miniway back, kind of made me think twice about buying their products tbh, people going 'missing' etc. But I'll leave it at that, no politics or football
As for brand engineering, been going on for decades! My first tig is a 1940's era BOC argonarc, scant information on it, till I found the P&H tig exactly the same! Think BOC were buying up surplus P&H machines from america and rebranding them here
did find a cool manual for the P&H from the military, got information on how to destroy it to prevent it falling into the enemy's hands, setting up earth spikes and hooking into power grids
Of course, I think they all do a bit of rebranding, and its only getting more common
BOC, Linde, P&H, Airco, Union Carbide - I think they've all had their name on the same machines at one point, or at least a couple of them at a time.
