Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[m_c]

Even the PPE that gets used when working on high voltage switch gear in the likes of power stations where arc flash is a risk, doesn't prevent body damage.
Should arc flash happen, it doesn't provide that much protection, but it doesn't stick to your skin, like any common clothing would.

 

[m_c]

Would the house have fared any better if there was 50l of petrol in there? Serious question.

I know it’s accepted that the fires are harder to put out in an ev but the overall heat output (I know it got waved away as irrelevant but several studies have seen fit to include it so to me it seems very relevant) is not much different, in fact maybe more in a petrol vehicle, with an ev likely to be slower to spread rather than it going up suddenly in the case of a fuel tank.

Fuel tanks don't really go up suddenly, unless it's in a movie.
They'll mostly melt then the fuel will burn as it runs across the ground.

A Lithium battery in comparison, will burn very intensely, very quickly

 

[rhubarb7]

I see there's talk of not allowing EV's of any description on ferries..Imagine trying to put an EV fire out on a ferry!

 

[daleyd]

Fuel tanks don't really go up suddenly, unless it's in a movie.
They'll mostly melt then the fuel will burn as it runs across the ground.

A Lithium battery in comparison, will burn very intensely, very quickly

Fuel lines rupture and fuel then spreads though, and goes very quickly - which was in a report I stuck further up thread.

 

[Ubique]

I see there's talk of not allowing EV's of any description on ferries..Imagine trying to put an EV fire out on a ferry!

Easy, just open the sea cocks....

 

[Robotstar5]

I know it’s accepted that the fires are harder to put out in an ev but the overall heat output (I know it got waved away as irrelevant but several studies have seen fit to include it so to me it seems very relevant) is not much different, in fact maybe more in a petrol vehicle, with an ev likely to be slower to spread rather than it going up suddenly in the case of a fuel tank.

I was watching a fire service training evening on Monday and Lithium batteries came up, the chap said energy out was about the same as petrol, but the problem with battery fires is all the energy is concentrated as it comes out of a rupture hole instead of more spread out in a petrol fire.
The fire service current approach is lots of water and they have a working party looking at better solutions.

Gratuitous photo of the the crew checking BA before going into the building to deal with the "lithium fire"

 

[daleyd]

I was watching a fire service training evening on Monday and Lithium batteries came up, the chap said energy out was about the same as petrol, but the problem with battery fires is all the energy is concentrated as it comes out of a rupture hole instead of more spread out in a petrol fire.
The fire service current approach is lots of water and they have a working party looking at better solutions.

Gratuitous photo of the the crew checking BA before going into the building to deal with the "lithium fire"

View attachment 405729

That was the findings of the study done, I’ll try and find the link again.

It said the battery fires are more difficult to extinguish, but can be slower to spread (compared to fuel fire) and more localised - which may or may not be a bad thing depending on location. Once fuel leaks it then becomes easily spreadable - the multi story car park fire in Liverpool being a prime case where multiple floors went up from fuel leaking down drains and across floors writing off hundreds of cars.

 

[Robotstar5]

That was the findings of the study done, I’ll try and find the link again.

It said the battery fires are more difficult to extinguish, but can be slower to spread (compared to fuel fire) and more localised - which may or may not be a bad thing depending on location. Once fuel leaks it then becomes easily spreadable - the multi story car park fire in Liverpool being a prime case where multiple floors went up from fuel leaking down drains and across floors writing off hundreds of cars.

When was that?, I know Cheshire fire brigade commissioned at least one low profile appliance capable of working inside Runcorn shopping centre.

 

[daleyd]

When was that?, I know Cheshire fire brigade commissioned at least one low profile appliance capable of working inside Runcorn shopping centre.

View attachment 405731

Liverpool car park fire: Hundreds of burnt-out vehicles removed - BBC News

More than 1,000 vehicles were destroyed when the Liverpool car park was engulfed in flames.

www.bbc.co.uk

1000 cars, £20m…

 

[atomant48]

Here's an 'old' event for consideration - would you charge a BEV (or two) in a garage that forms part of your house structure? Admittedly not a frequent occurrence, but if it's your house, it only needs to happen once.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

I think it’s a fair question. If I were lucky enough to own a house with an adjoined garage big enough (it’s on my wish list !) I think i probably would. But it’s certainly something one should consider- and not really something you’d consider for a non EV I guess. But I have genuinely no concerns when charging mine (having read a bunch of info).

That said we have some good friends whose dishwasher caught fire one night while they were sleeping and gutted the kitchen. They all got out but they won’t use the dishwasher at night now. Apparently it’s quite a common fire. But it hasn’t changed us using it when we go to bed - so moral is I think as long as you understand the risks and make a reasoned decision that’s all we can do ?

 

[Ubique]

Dishwasher, washing machine etc. are only ever used when there is someone awake, years ago a good friend lost his three dogs and dozen or so caged birds to a house fire whilst he was at work due to a faulty appliance. The neighbours called the police initially because the dogs 'screaming' was annoying them....

 

[Ubique]

Liverpool car park fire: Hundreds of burnt-out vehicles removed - BBC News

More than 1,000 vehicles were destroyed when the Liverpool car park was engulfed in flames.

www.bbc.co.uk

1000 cars, £20m…

Liverpool. I wonder if all the owners knew they were in that car park?

 

[atomant48]

Dishwasher, washing machine etc. are only ever used when there is someone awake, years ago a good friend lost his three dogs and dozen or so caged birds to a house fire whilst he was at work due to a faulty appliance. The neighbours called the police initially because the dogs 'screaming' was annoying them....

Great example of your risk appetite is different to mine. The important thing is we’ve both thought about it.

 

[not done it yet]

How is that relevant?- a concrete wall is the only real PPE that will keep you safe from a 3000degree Celcius fire spitting out bits of molten lithium. The rest of you post adds nothing.
Here's an 'old' event for consideration - would you charge a BEV (or two) in a garage that forms part of your house structure? Admittedly not a frequent occurrence, but if it's your house, it only needs to happen once.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

Just as relevant as your post I might suggest?

We need a good, reliable reference to your 3000 Celsius claim. Maybe, perhaps, likely you are quoting Fahrenheit numbers as Celsius - many do.

Here is an extract from a government(?) report on Lithium battery fires:

In an uncontrolled failure of the battery, all that energy and heat increases the hazard risks in terms of fuelling a potential fire. The heat from lithium-ion battery failures can reach up to 400 degrees Celsius in just a matter of seconds, with peak fire temperatures being higher than this.

Peak temperature in excess of 400 Celsius? Yes but not as hot as an oxy-acetylene flame? I would not expect a report to just say “ being higher” if it was over 7 times higher!

Lithium melts at 180 degrees and has already boiled by the time you might get to 3000 degrees. Yep, it boils at 1350 C. Steel melts at around 1500 C.

Exactly how many of your Lithium powered tools, phones, etc have burst into flames? I know that thousands of BEVs have been recalled for a battery change, because of manufacturing faults. It happens. None in the last year, I think. The manufacturers are learning fast. Much, much faster than some most of the BEV opponents.

I insured my vehicle against loss. The premium was not that exorbitant (about the same as the Peugeot 607, actually). I take sensible precautions with my BEV. My home is insured, too.

 

[Ubique]

Apologies, the 3000deg. C. was a phone typo, should have read 2000deg. C. (mainly due to venturi effect increasing the exit temperature)
Here's a quote, encompassing your two favourite things, up-to-date and the BBC

E-bike fire every two days says London Fire Brigade

Flames from an e-bike or e-scooter fire can rip through a bedroom in 10 to 15 seconds, City Hall told.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ubique]

Great example of your risk appetite is different to mine. The important thing is we’ve both thought about it.

My personal risk appetite is very different to the ones I'd want to expose my family, friends and pets to.

 

[not done it yet]

Liverpool. I wonder if all the owners knew they were in that car park?

That fire was started by an ICE vehicle, was it not? Please don’t try to blame it on a BEV.

There was no mention of BEVs in the several reports I just read, so I expect this is just another attempt to discredit BEVs that doesn’t really hold water!

 

[redlig]

How is that relevant?- a concrete wall is the only real PPE that will keep you safe from a 3000degree Celcius fire spitting out bits of molten lithium. The rest of you post adds nothing.
Here's an 'old' event for consideration - would you charge a BEV (or two) in a garage that forms part of your house structure? Admittedly not a frequent occurrence, but if it's your house, it only needs to happen once.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

About 10 or so years ago a model airplane guy had a small LIPO battery charging in his garage (attached to house ) which set the house alight and caused quite a bit of damage. 1200m/ah sized.

 

[Ubique]

That fire was started by an ICE vehicle, was it not? Please don’t try to blame it on a BEV.

There was no mention of BEVs in the several reports I just read, so I expect this is just another attempt to discredit BEVs that doesn’t really hold water!

I was blaming it on bindippers, not BEV's, get over yourself.

 

[GRW]

That fire was started by an ICE vehicle, was it not? Please don’t try to blame it on a BEV.

There was no mention of BEVs in the several reports I just read, so I expect this is just another attempt to discredit BEVs that doesn’t really hold water!

It was a joke man!
A gentle poke at Liverpool & it's "Scallies" appropriating other people's cars - that's how I read it

Edit - crossed over reply with above