EWM Phoenix conversion

[Hood]

Thanks Matt, I am not even sure if mine has a Tacho, if it does it is certainly not connected as there are only 2 wires for the motor power connected. Still a bit confused as to why it needs to be used closed loop just because the motor has a tacho on it when motors without a Tacho can be used open loop but seems to be that way for the Lorch from what they are saying.

Jim, I will try swapping it about when I get a chance, it will be Saturday or Sunday before I get a chance though.

I am hoping I can get it working, the price I paid was certainly a lot less than what I imagine they would cost new but it was still a good chunk of cash to splash out on something that won't work, time will tell

 

[Hood]

@Jim Davey
Do you know is the EWM Mini Drives you use have Tach feedback or do they just plug into the 19pin Analogue connector?

 

[Richard.]

Not all is lost.
@Hood you said you obtained that feeder for a good deal so if it cannot be made to work it should easily claw back it’s original coin. So worst case scenario your back to the suitcase and no worse off. If nothing else you’ve learned a little bit more about these systems.

 

[Hood]

I don't have much luck in selling stuff

 

[matt1978]

Thanks Matt, I am not even sure if mine has a Tacho, if it does it is certainly not connected as there are only 2 wires for the motor power connected. Still a bit confused as to why it needs to be used closed loop just because the motor has a tacho on it when motors without a Tacho can be used open loop but seems to be that way for the Lorch from what they are saying.

Jim, I will try swapping it about when I get a chance, it will be Saturday or Sunday before I get a chance though.

I am hoping I can get it working, the price I paid was certainly a lot less than what I imagine they would cost new but it was still a good chunk of cash to splash out on something that won't work, time will tell

As far as I know the Lorch version is the same as the Mechafin. I don’t know how the wiring works but that was the answer I got from our tech department. With me not being from a electrical Service background, I also don’t also understand what makes a motor “digital” but you hear it a lot nowadays especially in vacuum cleaners etc.

But the Nanofeeder is not unique as regards being Digital. The spinning PT (Planetic) drive torch and some others from manufacturers like Binzel, Fronius, Autogen Ritter and some Cobramatics are and it would be the same issue regarding syncing them together analogue uses 0-10v reference and digital IO hence the reason for additional hardware and software.

I think from a easy to understand layman’s terms I use this analogy.

The annolgue Push Pull torches are comparable to the semi synergic transformer type machines, whereby the wirefeed is simply linked to the welding voltage that is selected from the machine, so you increase the voltage and the wirefeed rate increases pro-rata, but it’s a kind of one size fits all arrangement and is still necessary to adjust the wirefeed rate over and above what the machine has set for optimum results especially when using different wire diameters or types.

The digital push pulls are like a machine with a bespoke synergic line that has been tailormade for that exact wire/Gas/material thickness combination

 

[Hood]

It may be they are some form of brushless DC or AC servo motor which requires a servo drive to provide the commutation/sequencing of the phases. If that were the case however I would have thought they would require 3 wires rather than just the two.
Will try the swapping of the plug as Jim mentioned and see as there must be a reason that the EWM has two terminals on the control board, one for Push-Pull and the other for Intermediate Drive, hopefully it will work out for me
I should have brought it home with me tonight and I could have had a look at what type of motor was in it, will do that tomorrow night if I remember.

 

[Hood]

BTW the PT drive push/pull I have (another buy that is no use to me ) is a bog standard DC motor. Well when I say bog standard the frame size is not but the commutation via brushes is.

 

[matt1978]

You will know if the erratic arc length is due to mis sync’ing by taking the machine out of Pulse and into manual mode and choosing your own voltage and wirefeed rate.

The machine doesn’t use the tacho for manual mode so if the wire feed delivery is constant in this mode then the reason for it not being perfect on pulse mode will be down to the tacho syncing

 

[matt1978]

BTW the PT drive push/pull I have (another buy that is no use to me ) is a bog standard DC motor. Well when I say bog standard the frame size is not but the commutation via brushes is.

I don’t know about that, but I do know in order to use that type of torch (made by TBI) on a Lorch machine it required the Digi version of the PCB and I also remember when I used to work at Fronius there PT drive version of the torch required their digital interface. (But that was 10+ years ago and I am talking about the TPS machines and not the TPSi machines that they have now)

If all else fails I’m sure you will be able to shift them on

 

[Hood]

You will know if the erratic arc length is due to mis sync’ing by taking the machine out of Pulse and into manual mode and choosing your own voltage and wirefeed rate.

The machine doesn’t use the tacho for manual mode so if the wire feed delivery is constant in this mode then the reason for it not being perfect on pulse mode will be down to the tacho syncing

The funny thing is it was slightly better in double pulse than single pulse, never tried on standard spray though.

I don’t know about that, but I do know in order to use that type of torch (made by TBI) on a Lorch machine it required the Digi version of the PCB and I also remember when I used to work at Fronius there PT drive version of the torch required their digital interface. (But that was 10+ years ago and I am talking about the TPS machines and not the TPSi machines that they have now)

If all else fails I’m sure you will be able to shift them on

Just been doing some searching to see if I could find out what a digital DC motor is and it seems it is just a brushless DC motor. Now they do require commutation from an external source but that can be as simple as inbuilt hall sensors. A good example of a basic brushless DC is the fan in your computer.

So it seems digital motor is basically Sales speak for BLDC which has been around for many a year, Brusshless DC (BLDC) just doesn't sound as cool as Digital motor
So my PT Drive is definitely not a digital motor or even a BLDC one, it is a brushed DC motor.
Now whether the Nano feeder is brushed or brushless I have no idea but even if it is brushless then their must be internal comutation signals as there is no feedback and it works fine off DC and varies fine with the wire feed pot on the EWM.

Hopefully I will learn more in the next few days when I get in about it, I might even get it working but if not at least I now know what a digital motor is, it is a BLDC with added marketing hype

 

[matt1978]

never tried on standard spray though.

Aslong as it’s in a mode where you have to choose the Volts and Wirefeed rate (usually called Manual) and the settings are not given from a Synergic line it should prove the point.

 

[Hood]

Aslong as it’s in a mode where you have to choose the Volts and Wirefeed rate (usually called Manual) and the settings are not given from a Synergic line it should prove the point.

To be honest I don't even know if that is possible on the EWM, will have to look.

 

[matt1978]

The only reason I made a point of saying the manual mode as apposed to standard Spray is because if you used standard Spray but still in “synergic” mode from the machine I don’t think it would bypass the tacho. Give it a go tomorrow

 

[Hood]

Just had a quick look at the manual and I don't think there is such a thing as full manual mode.
I can take it out of pulse mode but varying the wire feed will still vary the voltage. I can alter the voltage offset by as much as +/- 10v in any mode whether non pulse, single pulse or super pulse but doesn't look like I can use it in totally manual mode.

The two control panels shown below.

Definitely won't get a chance to try the nano tomorrow as I will be welding all day, Saturday I am back up the road doing some filling up of rope worn guides on the 10m Cheetah I fitted out last year but hopefully that won't take too long so I may get a chance to fart about with things later on Saturday.

 

[matt1978]

Was having a tidy up in the stores and seen our demo Nanofeeder, whipped the back off the amphonel, as you can see there are more than 2 wires on our version.

 

[Hood]

Looks like yours has a tach as well, unless there is a pot to adjust wire feed on yours?

 

[matt1978]

We adjust all of our values for the “PowerMaster” digital torches via the standard trigger pins. I don’t know what the other wires are for.

On the TBI Planetic Spinning motor torch, that also had a thumbwheel for adjusting power, but our conventional smart torches plug directly into the nano feeder, without any additional fly leads

 

[Hood]

Must be a tach/encoder then.

 

[Hood]

It is not looking good for my Phoenix
I got help/info from EWM's UK Technician on the possible cause of the fault. Basically it could be down to the thermal switches or a fault in the M320 PCB. There are three thermal switches and all check out ok and disconnecting them makes no difference in that the fans still come on and the error message appears and the welder is disabled.
So it is looking like it is the PCB that is the problem, I have asked for the price of a new PCB and Callum (EWM's Tech) is going to find out for me tomorrow but I suspect it will probably cost more than the machine is worth as I have to also factor in whether something else is likely to fail in the near future. The Phoenix has not done much (50hrs or so) but it is 9 years old so.....
It is kind of looking like the R-Tech will be back in service until I can afford to buy a new pulse Mig and that is not going to be any time soon unfortunately

 

[eSCHEn]

I hope that's not the result you end up with Hood because that is immensely rubbish to say the least