- Thread starter matt1978
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I also approached MAS (Manufacturing Advisory Service) to start the ball rolling. I have found them easy to deal with and very professional. A gentleman from the Yorkshire area MAS came round at the end of last week, asked a few questions and completed a form. He confirmed that we are able to obtain a grant to assist with getting CE Marking accreditation. There are a lot of cross-overs with ISO 9001 (Quality) and CE Marking (EN 1090), so we are doing both. I have been awarded a grant for both accreditations (MAS put them through as two seperate 'jobs' to enable me to get double funding). I understand any size company can get funding and it is based on a comparison of their company accounts over 3 consecutive years i.e how much the business is growing, and how many more people you employ month-on-month.
Interestingly they also offer very large grants for the purchase of plant and equipment. I'm looking to buy a big turret punch for a new arm of the business so some valuable info there!
Whilst the MAS guy was in the office, we went on their site and selected a consultant. Their list of consultants shows how many companies each consultant has sucessfully got through the accreditation. We are using this company. They stand out a mile from all the others. I met Arthur earlier this week who ran through the areas that we need to sort and gave me a good overview of the process and time considerations.
I understand that it is throught that approx 80% of companies will not have completed the CE marking by July next year. There is talk that the deadline may be put back. I've pushed to make sure we get ours before July. A few people are relaxing about it slightly however there's a good chance that when the phone rings in June and someone wants a steel frame for instance, they are going to go someone else for the job. The assessor is doing his first visit on 3rd Jan so at least things are moving. HPA seem to want to do what they can to help us through as quickly as they can to meet the date.
There are a lot of outfits that don't know about CE, are ignoring it, or don't think it's relevant to them.
The CE marking accreditation is going to set us back around 6 grand, and the ISO9001 about a grand. Plus in-house costs/yearly re assessments/outsourced (for the moment) Responsible Welding co-ordinator etc. We have been offered a 2 grand grant, which is nice.
As far as CE is concerned, the assessor spends his first visit looking at the current controls and systems that are in place and uses that as a basis for the Factory Production Control, implementing changes where required. The system the runs for a month with a second visit to agree any revisions. It seems quite an easy process compared to some of the stuff i have read up on.
I'm wary that when new legislation is brought in, some individuals or companies use it as an opportunity to make money and might not always be able to offer the best information and maybe not very efficiently either. There doesnt seem to be any of that yet, but i remain to fully convinced.
We are looking to go for EXC 3, it's not a huge jump to go from EXC 2 (which we would need as a minimum) to EXC 3.
I'm glad its underway, i think it will add a fair amount of additional admin work to the job, but won't increase tonnage prices a great deal. Other fabricators may see it as an opportunity to drive up rates which to be honest is a good thing. It will also clear out a lot of the chancers which are in the industry.
Apologies that this isnt relevent to a lot of people but if i can make life easier for someone else going through it then great. I would welcome other peoples experience/thoughts.
Interestingly they also offer very large grants for the purchase of plant and equipment. I'm looking to buy a big turret punch for a new arm of the business so some valuable info there!
Whilst the MAS guy was in the office, we went on their site and selected a consultant. Their list of consultants shows how many companies each consultant has sucessfully got through the accreditation. We are using this company. They stand out a mile from all the others. I met Arthur earlier this week who ran through the areas that we need to sort and gave me a good overview of the process and time considerations.
I understand that it is throught that approx 80% of companies will not have completed the CE marking by July next year. There is talk that the deadline may be put back. I've pushed to make sure we get ours before July. A few people are relaxing about it slightly however there's a good chance that when the phone rings in June and someone wants a steel frame for instance, they are going to go someone else for the job. The assessor is doing his first visit on 3rd Jan so at least things are moving. HPA seem to want to do what they can to help us through as quickly as they can to meet the date.
There are a lot of outfits that don't know about CE, are ignoring it, or don't think it's relevant to them.
The CE marking accreditation is going to set us back around 6 grand, and the ISO9001 about a grand. Plus in-house costs/yearly re assessments/outsourced (for the moment) Responsible Welding co-ordinator etc. We have been offered a 2 grand grant, which is nice.
As far as CE is concerned, the assessor spends his first visit looking at the current controls and systems that are in place and uses that as a basis for the Factory Production Control, implementing changes where required. The system the runs for a month with a second visit to agree any revisions. It seems quite an easy process compared to some of the stuff i have read up on.
I'm wary that when new legislation is brought in, some individuals or companies use it as an opportunity to make money and might not always be able to offer the best information and maybe not very efficiently either. There doesnt seem to be any of that yet, but i remain to fully convinced.
We are looking to go for EXC 3, it's not a huge jump to go from EXC 2 (which we would need as a minimum) to EXC 3.
I'm glad its underway, i think it will add a fair amount of additional admin work to the job, but won't increase tonnage prices a great deal. Other fabricators may see it as an opportunity to drive up rates which to be honest is a good thing. It will also clear out a lot of the chancers which are in the industry.
Apologies that this isnt relevent to a lot of people but if i can make life easier for someone else going through it then great. I would welcome other peoples experience/thoughts.
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AndyStobbs
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Pleased to hear you're getting ontop of it. It doesn't impinge on me but running a business myself I understand the time and money spent before you can get on with actually working.
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We are getting on with it now, all the things to keep records are in place now as well.
Theres a few points that I can envisage being a minor inconvenience, things like keeping track of offcuts used on smaller jobs.
Also talk of me going on a weld inspection course at some point, so we can do in house inspection for the majority of jobs.
Theres a few points that I can envisage being a minor inconvenience, things like keeping track of offcuts used on smaller jobs.
Also talk of me going on a weld inspection course at some point, so we can do in house inspection for the majority of jobs.
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Finally spoken to the actual guy who 'gets his hands dirty' sorting our 1090 and 9001. Someones obviously told him it needs sorting urgently. There is a fast track way of sorting 1090, but touch and go if it will be complete by July. Rather than having a meeting every month to review documents/implement changes/review etc, these can be virtual. Distance learning if you like. He emails me what documents he needs to have to fulfil a particular section, i sort it and email it. Ad infinitum. One or two meetings should then sort it.
By the sounds of it, with a lot of what we have in place; welder quals, a QA procedure, WPS's, will vastly reduce the amount of work that needs doing.
Matt - It is this fella that has asked about your WPS in electronic form. He hasnt seen it, but knows of their existence. I'll show him 3rd Jan....think its worth mentioning gas composition or not????
By the sounds of it, with a lot of what we have in place; welder quals, a QA procedure, WPS's, will vastly reduce the amount of work that needs doing.
Matt - It is this fella that has asked about your WPS in electronic form. He hasnt seen it, but knows of their existence. I'll show him 3rd Jan....think its worth mentioning gas composition or not????
norlander
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Thanks for that, times have changed and processes have evolved obviously-but MIG for steelfab seems dodgy to me but then-I'm old school and nothing less than MMA would do for me on fabrication of steelwork.
I can understand the need for regulation now. Another point to consider-maybe not exactly relevant to the subject-but I started out in 1965-everything was to British Standard in FoS- the steel, the electrodes, the bolts and nuts.
Welding plants-Oxfords-there was no chinese steel/welding machines/ foreign rods(electrodes). I was one of six apprentices to 3 time served men-our work was checked at each stage by a time served man.
I guess it will be tough for some small firms (like I was with) like most regulation, I expect it has come out of necessity due to the work of a few cowboys.There maybe another factor in that europe is expanding and taking in eastern european nations which may have different standards of construction??-they would be eligible to bid for contracts so standards for processes and procedures in FoS will need to be established?.
Good luck to the small outfits in meeting this one.
matt1978
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Some Mig processes that are avilable from a few manufacturers have come on hugely in recent years. Modified spray arcs with bags of penetration, far more than could ever be acheived with standard Mig/Mag or MMA.
All of the ancillary items, the Steel itself, Nuts, Bolts, Washers, Welding Consumables etc etc related to this, had to be CE Marked from July this year. So only a accepted standard of quality of compnant can now be used in the fabrication of structural steel
All of the ancillary items, the Steel itself, Nuts, Bolts, Washers, Welding Consumables etc etc related to this, had to be CE Marked from July this year. So only a accepted standard of quality of compnant can now be used in the fabrication of structural steel
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As we are tight for time, i've decided to go for EXC2. We can 'upgrade' later as and when. Might need you to speak to our consultant re gas/WPS in January if you can. He's looking into it before now and the new year. He say's he's never come WPS's written based on 'non-UK' gas mixes.
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matt1978
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Yes I have a meeting about this specifically next week at the TWI.
BOC and AP both make Oxygen free mixtures of a 80% Ar 20% Co2 anyway, so if it come to it then you just specify that you want a Oxygen free mix for the time being.
AFAIK all of the welding machine manufacturers who have done a pre qualified WPS booklet have all used the standard Oxygen free, 82% Ar 18% Co2 mix which seems to be pretty standard across mainland Europe, so I'm sure your man will be seeing this more and more over the coming months.
I would double check how "easy" it is to upgrade from exc 2 to exc 3 because I was under the impression it was quite a leap
BOC and AP both make Oxygen free mixtures of a 80% Ar 20% Co2 anyway, so if it come to it then you just specify that you want a Oxygen free mix for the time being.
AFAIK all of the welding machine manufacturers who have done a pre qualified WPS booklet have all used the standard Oxygen free, 82% Ar 18% Co2 mix which seems to be pretty standard across mainland Europe, so I'm sure your man will be seeing this more and more over the coming months.
I would double check how "easy" it is to upgrade from exc 2 to exc 3 because I was under the impression it was quite a leap
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Bob mentioned oxygen free gas mix yesterday. I don't think i've ever used it. What's it like to weld with?
penfold
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I'm curious about how effective this aspect of the new regime will be; given the near-ubiquity of Chinese imports in this area(with the possible exception of welding consumables), what clauses have the drafters of EN1090 included to prevent the widespread use of fasteners that are made of cheese but have CE marking? Electrical goods and other imports from China often have CE marking and compliance certificates despite failing to meet even basic quality standards; the EU's ambitions for CE marking have significantly overreached its ability to enforce the standards and intercept dodgy goods at the point they arrive at the docks.
matt1978
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Good point Penfold. As with all CE marking there is not a CE police. It will be regulated/policed by the BSI in the UK.
I guess you could say the same about pressure vessels, they have had a simerla level of traceability of their construction, welding quality, components used etc for years.
AFAIK regarding CE marking/approval the buck stops with the importer. If he imports goods that are only CE approved by name and something went wrong then it would all be traced back to the company who bought them into the country
Things like that definitely go on, there are welding machines, consumables, helmets etc on sale within the UK as we speak that have CE marks but don't actually comply.
I guess you could say the same about pressure vessels, they have had a simerla level of traceability of their construction, welding quality, components used etc for years.
AFAIK regarding CE marking/approval the buck stops with the importer. If he imports goods that are only CE approved by name and something went wrong then it would all be traced back to the company who bought them into the country
Things like that definitely go on, there are welding machines, consumables, helmets etc on sale within the UK as we speak that have CE marks but don't actually comply.
matt1978
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One point I think is worth mentioning though, EN 1090 is part of a much much larger EU thing. It's all part of the CPD, the Construction Products Directitive. The CPD is EU legislation that relates to pretty much all products used in construction, double glazing , Bricks, suspended ceilings, etc etc. EN 1090 is just the very small part of the CPD that relates to Load bearing structural steel. The same sort of thing as EN 1090 is happening all across the construction sector with other non welding non steel related products
Edit, the CPD became the CPR when it was ratified
http://www.constructionproducts.org...isplay/view/construction-products-regulation/
Edit, the CPD became the CPR when it was ratified
http://www.constructionproducts.org...isplay/view/construction-products-regulation/
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I understand CE marking is/will be policed by Trading Standards.
BSI are just responsible for writing the standards?
BSI are just responsible for writing the standards?
